DeVry vs Phoenix vs ....

Greetings, I'm from /lounge/. I'm looking for pros and cons on which one of these two schools would be best for launching my career with programming. Keep in mind I know next to nothing, other than how to install an operating system and a fair amount of HTML. If you don't think either would be beneficial, that's fine too I'm open to suggestions. I live in Orlando FL so my other options include Valencia Community College, University of Central Florida, Full Sail, and of course just learning shit on my own.

Learn shit on your own. Look up old /prog/ challenges and complete them. Download eclipse and start with Java and move up from there. Eclipse + Java is a really great way to begin learning about programming.

Eclipse + Java is a really great way to begin learning about programming.

>>2
Yes, /prog/ challenges are a great way to embellish your resume.

http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1295381476/7

>>2
IHBT

>>5
Fuck you I made my thread first.

>>4
To be honest, I have included /prog/ challenges in my resume.

Just learning on your own. Even good schools have very lame programming programs. They are years out of date and don't teach you any basics. Most real programmers have learned how to program on thier own. Near all 100 level courses are really taught by TAs and when not, the Prof is a moron who could never get a real job as a programmer.

To really program, you have to do it. LOTS. There is a reason we are known as nerds - we had to spend many, many hours learning to code, then learning how to do it well. As someone starting out, you have a way to go just to start to be a programmer.

As for which school, I can only talk about VeVry from the perspective of a coupld of students I know. Simply put, it is a scam. They get you in by having you sign up for tuition assistance which sounds good but it is the worst debt you can have. Education loans do not need any court order to collect and these schools will sign you up for the worst kind of program. The kind that hits you up with >30% interest and fees if you miss one payment. They even garnished the wages of one of my employees and tried to garnish the wages of the co-signer - FOR THE SAME LOAN. The school was full of "kids" refered by the courts and full of pot heads.

>>9
Yo'ure spelling fucking sucks. Back to the imageboards, faggot.

>>1
My younger brother went to DeVry and ended up transferring to a local college. Don't enroll in commercial universities. Think why it is that colleges like DeVry AND Phoenix are known for their viral marketing instead of their curriculum.

>>2
Don't start with Java. Start with C.

>>11
I just don't think programming can be learnt in class. You can be given a start, the seed of knowledge, but it is only hours and days of personal exploration that will make one a programmer. Not three hours of lectures per week, no matter how good the professor or the course are.

Why do you want to do programming? For the ladies? It's not as glamorous as it is in the movies.

>>1
DeVry and Phoenix will leave you with, instead of a soul, a fuck huge debt.
They are scams.

Just pick up Land of Lisp and a Common Lisp implementation (SBCL)

>>12
I didn't learn to program from the lectures. I learned from spending countless hours on homework and projects. Cal-tech is a great school to go to for computer science. I make 50k+ a year now developing new Java utilities for sun microsystems.

>>14
Land of Lisp
I saw the youtube video, it was nice. Is the book actually good?

>>15
I make 50k+ a year now developing new Java utilities for sun microsystems.
Swing and a miss.

>>16
It's guaranteed to blow your mind!

>>16
It's great.

>>10

So sorry! I put in over 12 hours at work and was just pounding out a simple post. I didn’t' see a real need to fire up a word processor so I could spell and grammar check my work.

Spelling has always been my weak point. I can quote reams of technical data and have a near photographic memory EXCEPT for spelling and faces.

But about the original topic: There is plenty of free resources about C, C++, C# and so on. I would not start with Java but it is better than nothing. I wouldn't start with it simply because there are a billion programmers who claim to be Java programmers who can't really program. This tends to taint Java and many new Java programmers are painted with a very broad brush. Why bother with that mess?

Ideally, if you have any interest in electronics, I would suggest you start with Microcontroller programming. You can start with the Basic Stamp and learn "how to program" while you learn very key concepts about WHY we program the way we do. You will be able to learn about memory constraints and real world resource problems.

Here is a place to begin: 

For "C"
The C Programming Language by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie

The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrup

Each book has an Answer Book. Get it for your choice of language and go over each until you understand them.

You can get a free compiler in many places - even Microsoft.
You can download the free Express platform for C++, Visual Basic and others at: http://www.microsoft.com/express/Downloads/

If you are familiar with Linux, you can get the GCC easily enough.

The main thing is to WRITE CODE! It isn't something you get good at without real work. You MUST study your ass off. Seriously, you had better be ready to live in a book or on your computer for weeks on end. As mentioned, there are good schools out there but you better have serious $$ for them. And you will still need to put in the time. It only takes a few months to get good enough for an entry level job. You will still need to study your butt off. To really get and STAY good, you really need to put in the time.

Let us know how you do.

>>20
It only takes a few months to get good enough for an entry level job.
Is it possible to get hired for an entry level job without a degree?

>>21
Experience trumps education.
Involvement in open source projects, or writing a slick Android app or some other demo could help get you get an interview some places.
Basically any visible achievement you can point to to say you're not some random bum.

>>21
Absolutly! Programming is one area where a degree is not mandatory. You need to be able to pass a skills test or a tech interview. You may have to work around some HR types for the first job or so. One you have some experience, getting another job is much easier. If you can specialize it makes job hunting easier.
  In addition to your main language, you need to know a number of scripting languages for the OS you develop on. Perl, VBScript, etc. You also need to understand about compiling and stills like MAKE, etc.
  Also, make sure you know about coding styles and conventions. There is a lot more to programming than knowing a language!

>>1

If you use your mind, you'll find your own way in the world of programming, or perhaps even realize you like something better than programming. That's okay, deviation from expectations at this stage is a good thing.

If not, however, you'll just do what everyone else does and settle for mediocrity.

Start now, but please eschew formal education that isn't provided by a decent university. Computer Science education can be useful if you focus on theoretical courses. The "practical" courses are almost always dogshit.

That being said, you need a starting point. First time programmers seem to like Python. After you get the basics of imperative programming down, you can do one of two things:

Take the functional/mathematical route and read SICP/Little Schemer/Seasoned Schemer. Learn Scheme, Haskell. Branch out into things like the Lambda Calculus and Category Theory as they come up (I've found the latter to be more useful than the former in practice, but both are worth a look). You can use functional programming to solve real problems in languages like Haskell, Scheme and Common Lisp, despite what some simian C retards will tell you.

Take the machine-level route and learn C and assembly. Read K&R. There's a book called "Hacking: The Art of Exploitation" that gives an overview of some of the basic security problems that arise when writing C, and how they work on the level of assembly. It might be worth a skim.

You should do both of these at some point, but I find that usually a person initially prefers one over the other. Some people just learn a bit of Python/Java/VB/PHP and stay there. Don't do that. Stagnation is death at this point. Those languages are okay when you have to do something in the "really boring world", but are crutches for a beginner.

That's it. It's up for you to start now and put things into context as you go.

What are the /prog/ challenges?