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The uncomfortable truth about academia

Name: Connoisseur 2010-07-16 15:30

Got sent this in an e-mail, thought you guys might like it. From some objectivist's blog, I think.

At work today I discussed a new rule of thumb with the hiring manager, in an effort to stave off more fuckups like the guy we just had to fire. I provided her with a list of theory buzzwords and academic programming languages. If an applicant lists any of these on his resume, from now on she will not call him in for an interview. If he volunteers a mention of them during an interview, she will end it immediately.

For the naive among you: An academic programming language is by definition a language in which you cannot do real work. These languages are easy to identify because academics write papers about them. I think most people are unaware of the distinction, which is confusing because just four or five years ago it was glaringly obvious and nobody would take such a language seriously or ever try to use it to write an actual program. If some retard wanted to spend the rest of his life trying to write a working text editor in LISP, that was his business and all the people with homes and jobs could safely ignore him. Long story short? This is no longer true. Now the drooling lab rats have escaped from the lab. Now they're on my front lawn demanding to replace my Porsche with a cardboard box attached to a skateboard with organic barbed wire. Now they are literally in my actual business, wasting my time as well as theirs.

When a viral infection escapes from a lab, it's a disaster, a plague. It's the fucking armageddon. I think we should treat the theories of academia exactly the same way. God knows we've seen this happen in other fields-just look at the Gulf of Mexico. But at least that's a poison we can see with our eyes. Usually when academics poison industry with their impossible ideas, it goes completely unnoticed, and the world treats disasters as mysterious.

My industry is one of these. American programmers don't understand why nobody ever hires them. They complain about this on web pages like Reddit and Y Combinator, where they also discuss functional programming, monads, and web frameworks written in Ruby and Python. And nothing about this strikes them as ironic or hypocritical.

The good news (for me) is that programmers from other countries are actually serious about their work. All the Chinese and Indians we interview know that in the real world, we are worried about real computers that exist, with real hardware and real performance limitations.

Meanwhile, academic heavyweights like Mr. Don Stewart brag about the great things that they can do in Haskell, like write a display server called X Monad. Actually it's not a display server, it's a window decorator. Actually it's not written in Haskell, it's written in C, with a thousand lines of convoluted Haskell necessary to use the foreign function interface and call the C code that it's written in. Actually everything Mr. Stewart writes is like this. "Superior performance, safety, and ease of use?" So says Mr. Stewart, in the Haskell book that he's selling to all the people who think Haskell sounds like a good idea. Why yes, he's making money on this deal. Did he forget to mention that?

Overselling one's snake oil is hardly unique to Mr. Stewart. It's like the foundation of academia as a concept. The university itself is snake oil, and the whole community is a giant pyramid scheme for keeping afloat those who buy into it. I do mean "buy." The veil of learning and education is a front for the conspiracy of industrial sabotage, the vast plot to bring down all of society in order to "prove" that the bearded professors in their poorly ventilated hidey-holes were Right All Along. That's a self-fulfilling prophecy, by the way-a common ailment of mongoloids and schizophrenics.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 17:02

There is a subtle flaw in macro preprocessor.
It doesn't handle regular expressions. If this could be added as extension it would be as powerful as LISP(and half as powerful as JavaScript).

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 17:14

In 30 years of C, its macro preprocessor has changed very little.
What makes you think this bizzare addition is ever going to be implemented?

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 17:26

>>122
It's almost 40.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 17:31

Let's add a pre-pre-processor to C. It would be easy to do, would break no existing standards, and doesn't even require changing any existing compilers.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 18:22

>>124
Enjoy even more syntactic soup which works with text instead of the AST.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-25 18:28

>>121
If [regular expressions] could be added [to the C preprocessor] it would be as powerful as LISP
wat

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 0:30

>>126
Imagine, one #include with regexps
and your Lisp source is now translated to brainfuck or haskell.
Or ascii art inserted all over the place. Or it compiles the .c files into raw machine code chunks purely through text->\x32\x23 replacement.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 1:12

>>127
It'd be very easy to imagine, if s-expressions were a regular language, which they are not.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 2:32

>>124-128
Having some sort of inline, embedded scripting language added to C that is processed at compile time would be powerful.  But it would be messy.  It would not do much to improve maintainability or readability of code.  Something more elegant is needed.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 2:52

Maybe we could look to Simula for inspiration. I propose that this new preprocessor be called ++C.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 11:19

>>129
Something more elegant is needed.
Don't program in C if you want elegance. The end.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 15:57

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 16:14

>>131
Something more elegant is needed.
Don't program in C if you want elegance.
Hence, something more elegant is needed.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 16:16

C can be plenty elegant. No language covers all cases well.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 21:37

>>134
That's a lie. Ruby does.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-26 23:03

>>135
Except all the real world cases.

Name: FrozenVoid 2010-07-27 12:50

You can compile Blub to C, but you can't compile C to Blub.
If Blub can reach C speed, C can replicate the code and leapfrog away.
C is about algorithms you can optimize, Blub is about algorithms you can purify.
Blub follows the rules, C follows the needs.
Blub manages memory, C uses it.
Understanding a random line of Blub is hard, C can be understood immediately.
Elegance of Blub is elegance of pretty text, elegance of C is state-of-art performance.

_____________________
Orbis terrarum delenda est

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 12:58

>>137
As a reponse to FV, I admit IHBT, so:
You can compile Blub to C, but you can't compile C to Blub.
You can compile C to other languages other than ASM just fine, even highlevel languages. Sometimes the underlying architecture is better suited for less C-ish languages. If C is fast, it's only because C maps close the the platform's assembly, which is the case for x86.
If Blub can reach C speed, C can replicate the code and leapfrog away.
See previous reponse.
Understanding a random line of Blub is hard, C can be understood immediately.
Subjective. Understanding code written any language completly depends on how well you know it and on the language's own syntax, semantics and overall design. I'd say lots of highlevel languages are even easier to understand than C. You can write obfuscated code in any language.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 13:11

I take it that Blub is not Lisp. None of >>137-138 really applies there.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 13:25

>139
Yes, it doesn't apply to Lisp (there are C->Lisp compilers, and a good Lisp compiler can approach C speeds, also Lisp is easily understandable, if you took the time to study it, just like C), however one can't deny that Lisp is traditionally garbage collected (and that's perfectly fine).

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 13:28

>>138
Sometimes the underlying architecture is better suited for less C-ish languages. If C is fast, it's only because C maps close the the platform's assembly, which is the case for x86.
I think this is the case for just about any modern CPU.  This is really the primary argument for C.  It's thin and therefore efficient and nicely debuggable.

If Blub can reach C speed, C can replicate the code and leapfrog away.
What is this supposed to mean?  If you had some high-level, elegant language and it performed as well or better than C in all practical, real world cases, then there would be no need to "replicate the code" in C...

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 13:29

>>141
This is really the primary argument for C.
Effect, meet cause.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 13:56

>>142
C was designed such that a lot of the operators mapped closely to some ASM equivalent. It's no mere coincidence.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 14:38

>>143
It's no mere coincidence.
Who suggested it was a coincidence?

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 15:02

>>142
Effect, meet cause.
I'm glad that's not completely true. It dominates though... you get more experimentation in non "CPU" PUs.

Still, C still doesn't seem to know eg. SIMD very well.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 17:00

>>If some retard wanted to spend the rest of his life trying to write a working text editor in LISP, that was his business and all the people with homes and jobs could safely ignore him.

Ever heard of emacs?

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 17:01

Still, C still doesn't seem to know eg. SIMD very well.
ISO C doesn't, but GNU C does.

Name: Anonymous 2010-07-27 18:14

>>147
Not to my satisfaction. (It's good that GNU C does what it does, mind.)

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 6:58

Bump for FV.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 8:34

>>16
C was written by a researcher in an industrial research laboratory. try again

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 9:00

>>150
You sure showed him.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 9:05

>>151
Eat shit and die.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 9:14

>>152
I've got balls of steel.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-22 9:40

>>152
I'll rip your car off and shit down your cdr.

Name: Anonymous 2010-09-23 13:08

>>27
Best post in thread

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-06 9:36

Back to /b/, ``GNAA Faggot''

Name: Anonymous 2010-12-23 13:38

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-30 1:30

>>137
True, every Blub VM/Compiler is written in C

Name: Anonymous 2011-06-30 1:42

>>159
I would like to know how you came across this ancient thread? Also, I'm the original OP of this thread, fyi.

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