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Design failures

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 2:25

For example, all X11 clients crash when the server goes down.

When was the last time your browser crashed because a server was down? Or your irc client? Or whatever else there is except for X11 programs? Yeah, that's right.

Why they wouldn't just wait for the server to come up again and reconnect is beyond me. I mean it's a client-server system, so what's the point of not making use of it? Sure, you can connect from some remote machine and play around for a bit, but it's fucking useless when all your programs crash once you disconnect!!!

What the fuck were they thinking?

Name: 2GET 2010-02-17 2:49

It's *usually* more convenient to have all X programs terminate when the server is shutdown, i.e. so you can perform recovery using Ctrl-Alt-Backspace.

However, it'd be nice if they provided a way to detach the client that's separate from that.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:01

X11 isn't completely bad, though. I love being able to tunnel X11 clients from my machine to wherever  I am. For example, I'm on a slow-ass Intel Atom box, but the browser I'm using is tunneled from my normal box, a quad-core box which unfortunately doesn't have a working video card at the moment.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:37

>>2
Your "recovery" is about as useful as a "full reboot" for the vast majority of computer users.

P.S.: Not to start a flame war but on Windows you can literally disable and enable a graphics adapter (and update or replace the whole driver in between) and even 3D applications will survive.

>>3
Also remoting via "bitmap" approaches (VNC/RDP) always worked better than X11 even with tricks, and that's the only thing such a design had going for it (I don't know why people keep mentioning that as an X11 advantage; if anything is a terrible disadvantage - Firefox will very easily kill weak machines by uploading too much bitmaps to the X server)

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:44

>>4
Really? Most Windows GPU drivers usually ask you kindly to reboot after installing them.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:47

Can't a client choose not to crash? Xlib doesn't pull some Mesa GLUT shit and bail for you does it?

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:51

>>5
That's the other stuff (crappy custom installer which also installs a branded video control panel and/or other value added shit), not the driver, and like a lot of reboot requests it might not be really needed at all.

In fact, if you look closely, after installing the driver the screen will go blank and then back, before you reboot. At this point the newly installed driver is already running, with full 3D acceleration and everything (test it!).

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 3:52

>>6
Even the client gets in trouble.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 4:22

>>4
I wasn't defending X, I was explaining the design. X is a piece of shit.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 4:41

Maybe /prog/ should write a replacement for X

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 5:37

>>10
back to /anonix/, please

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 7:34

>>10
It's Open Source, after all. Don't like it? You're welcome to change it!

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 7:48

>>12
U MENA FORKING

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 10:29

obligatory
>>13
FORK MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 10:34

>>10
What replacement for X? Go buy a mac if you want pictures, wanker.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 11:23

I think google's plan for the Chrome OS is basically to take Linux and add a new windowing thing, like Apple did with BSD

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 11:28

It should be possible for a programmer du detach his programm from X11 and just have the GUI running, so that when X11 crashes the program can redraw its GUI. But I don't think X can control the status of the programs that are using it and eve if I don't think thats the job of X to do that.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 12:29

>>17
X11 is the GUI. If there is no X then where would it redraw the GUI? IHBT

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 15:20

>>17
Of course it's the clients job to do it, but currently it's just not done at all. Ideally this should be implemented transparently at the toolkit level.

>>18
I think he means once the X server is restarted.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 15:33

CLIENT MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 16:38

>>20
SERVE MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 16:39

>>20
RESTART MY ANUS

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 16:40

>>21
>>22
ANUSMIND

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 16:57

>>20-23 samefag

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 17:04

>>24
samefag
appending ``fag'' to the end of a word

Back to the imageboards, please.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 17:29

>>25
butthurtfag

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 17:37

>>26
http://boards.4chan.org/b/

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 18:07

>>27 see >>26

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 18:28

double nigger

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-17 23:55

>>28-29
see
>>27

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 8:23

Linux is *not* user friendly, and until it is linux will stay with >1% marketshare.

Take installation. Linux zealots are now saying "oh installing is so easy, just do apt-get install package or emerge package": Yes, because typing in "apt-get" or "emerge" makes so much more sense to new users than double-clicking an icon that says "setup".

Linux zealots are far too forgiving when judging the difficultly of Linux configuration issues and far too harsh when judging the difficulty of Windows configuration issues. Example comments:

User: "How do I get Quake 4 to run in Linux?"
Zealot: "Oh that's easy! If you have Ubuntu, you have to download quake_4_dapper_i686_010207_glibc.bin, then do chmod +x on the file. Then you have to su to root, make sure you type export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 but ONLY if you have that latest libc6 installed. If you don't, don't set that environment variable or the installer will dump core. Before you run the installer, make sure you have the GL drivers for X installed. Get them at [some obscure web address], chmod +x the binary, then run it, but make sure you have at least 10MB free in /tmp or the installer will dump core. After the installer is done, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add a section called "GL" and put "driver nv" in it. Make sure you have the latest version of X.org and Linux kernel 2.6.15 or else X will segfault when you start. OK, run the Quake 4 installer and make sure you set the proper group and setuid permissions on quake4.bin. If you want sound, look here [link to another obscure web site], which is a short HOWTO on how to get sound in Quake 4. That's all there is to it!"

User: "How do I get Quake 4 to run in Windows?"
Zealot: "Oh God, I had to install Quake 4 in Windoze for some lamer friend of mine! God, what a fucking mess! I put in the CD and it took about 3 minutes to copy everything, and then I had to reboot the fucking computer! Jesus Christ! What a retarded operating system!"

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that what seems easy and natural to Linux geeks is definitely not what regular people consider easy and natural. Hence, the preference towards Windows.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 8:33

>If you have Ubuntu
What if i have gentoo. Describe the process.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 8:47

>>32
You reverse-engineer Quake4, and then rewrite it yourself as OpenQuake4 so that you can specify your own CFLAGS.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 8:47

>>32
"emerge quake4-bin", copy resources from the CD you bought or vice versa. I have no idea where, but I don't think it's hard to know.

*Windows7-kun*

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 8:53

What if i have gentoo.
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Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 9:24

>>32

Oh, there is http://gentoo-portage.com/games-fps/quake4-data .
You know what to do know.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 11:44

>>2
ITT: It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 11:50

>>31
>1% marketshare
Oh no!

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 13:58

Am I the only one that realizes that the normal client/server roles are reversed with X11?

Name: Anonymous 2010-02-18 14:31

>>39
no sir you are not alone.
what the fuck was the MIT thinking?
so fucked.
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