Which language to learn?

I know that this has to be a quite frequently asked question, but a group only gets more valuable members by helping people who want to learn. Currently I'm sort of proficient with DOS commands. Obviously you cannot create a complicated graphical program out of DOS. I've heard all over this board that Python sucks, which ironically is the one language most of my friends recommended learning. What language can I learn that is actually useful?

I come to /prog/ for you guys are the only assholes on the internet that will bash other languages if they do suck. Forums have to be 'unbiased' and 'neutral'.

Python

If your total programming experience is using DOS, then it'll be quite a while before you learn to do anything "useful".  C IMO is better for a beginner to study than Python, but either would be good.  Grab the free Visual Studio Express C++ compiler from microsoft, and find a decent online tutorial somewhere.

C/C++.
Dos commands/batch files are not meant for complex programming: they serve as automation layer between user and command processor. Think of batch files as scripted user actions, which are cumbersome to perform standalone.
You can create some simple programs with .bat files(iirc the first "real" program which i did was a password protected command.com loader, which was a compiled batch file) but they severely limit creativity and scope of any programmer.
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A free press is not a privilege but an organic necessity in a great society. Without criticism and reliable and intelligent reporting, the government cannot govern. For there is no adequate way in which it can keep itself informed about what the people of the country are thinking and doing and wanting.

I've heard all over this board that Python sucks
Fact: This board is a terrible source for legitimate information.

Also, I agree with >>3

C/C++. Bork Bork Bork!
Dus cummunds/betch feeles ere-a nut meunt fur cumplex prugremmeeng: zeey serfe-a es ootumeshun leyer betveee user und cummund prucessur. Bork Bork Bork! Theenk ooff betch feeles es screepted user ecshuns, vheech ere-a coombersume-a tu perffurm stundelune-a. Bork Bork Bork!
Yuoo cun creete-a sume-a seemple-a prugrems veet .bet feeles(iurc zee furst "reel" prugrem vheech i deed ves a pessvurd prutected cummund.cum lueder, vheech ves a cumpeeled betch feele-a) boot zeey seferely leemit creeteefity und scupe-a ooff uny prugremmer. Bork Bork Bork!
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A free-a press is nut a preefilege-a boot un oorguneec necesseety in a greet suceeety. Bork Bork Bork! Veethuoot creeticism und releeeble-a und intelleegent repurteeng, zee gufernment cunnut gufern. Bork Bork Bork! Fur zeere-a is nu edeqooete-a vey in vheech it cun keep itselff inffurmed ebuoot vhet zee peuple-a ooff zee cuoontry ere-a theenking und dueeng und vunteeng.

I've heard that C is the next step. People have said things about Visual Basic but I'm not sure of what that is. No one would ever elaborate on what it is...

>>7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28programming_language%29

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It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history, is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.

>>7
http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/Feesooel_Beseec
http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/C_%28prugremmeeng_lungooege-a%29

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It is frum noomberless deeferse-a ects ooff cuoorege-a und beleeeff thet hoomun heestury, is sheped. Bork Bork Bork! Iech teeme-a a mun stunds up fur un ideel, oor ects tu imprufe-a zee lut ooff oozeers, oor streekes oooot egeeenst injoosteece-a, he-a sends furt a teeny reepple-a ooff hupe-a, und crusseeng iech oozeer frum a meelliun deefffferent centers ooff inergy und dereeng thuse-a reepples booeeld a coorrent vheech cun sveep doon zee meeghtiest vells ooff ooppresseeun und reseestunce-a.

>>1
This board hates Python because this board is full of idiots who don't actually program.

Seriously, Python. Your friends are correct. Get this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Hello-World-Computer-Programming-Beginners/dp/1933988495/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1248330540&sr=8-2

First learn C.
Maybe learn some x86 asm, so you would understand internals even better.
Learn C# or maybe Python to get a taste of higher level languages.


Read SICP, and then learn a CL.

>>11
First learn C.
Maybe learn some x86 asm, so you would understand internals even better.
Learn C# or maybe Python to get a taste of higher level languages.
Read SICP, and then learn a CL.

Learn CL, and then skim a SICP.

>>1
Your friends are smarter than /prog/ gives them credit for. Python is pretty good; semantically it's very similar to Scheme and Javascript, with the addition of formal OOP-isms because object-oriented programming makes you popular and cool. As a result, it's possible to work through most of SICP in Python.

The one thing you're missing out on with all of these languages is a type system, and the automatic bug-checking it brings to your code. If you ever get sick of bugs in your code where your function expected a complex number and you passed in a list of batting averages, try switching to a language with strong typing (meaning you can't break the type system) and type inference (meaning you don't have to explicitly say what the type is every time you declare a variable). This will allow you to retain the brevity of dynamically typed languages while also writing safer code. A good example is Haskell, which also has the benefit of being very fast.

We might laugh at you for your choice but we're basically just schoolyard bullies. By the time you're skilled enough to write big programs, our usual jokes about Python and Haskell will probably no longer apply, so you'll probably never understand what all the fuss was about.

>>10
/prog/ doesn't actually hate python, we just like to rip on it because Guido van Rossum hates functinal programming

>>10
This board hates Python
Ha ha ha oh wow you have been so trolled. Perhaps you should stick to the image boards where the pretty pictures make sarcasm, irony, and other forms of humor more obvious.

>>15
ONE WORD:

THE FORCED INDENTATION OF CODE

>>14
No, I hate python because all the CS college kiddies that only know a single language talk about how amazing it is and how shitty all other languages are.
Seriously, it's a pain; these fuckers have never even used a non-python language and yet they consider themselves EXPERT PROGRAMMERS who know everything about everything.
Of course, this kind of arrogance and blatant stupidity is the same reason I hate /g/.

>>1
OP, there's nothing horribly wrong with Python. I think Python has some quirks that may not make it the best starter language, but this depends a lot on what you intend to do.

If you just want to fuck around and don't actually care to be a programmer, languages with large libraries are best, like Java, Python, Ruby, C#, etc. Most of these languages are shitty for particular reasons, but unless you want to be a real programmer you will probably never know and therefore your choice is pretty arbitrary.

>>17
It's not the language's fault if the users are ignorant.

>>1
Hi, I am learning scheme as my first language. I made a thread on here called "The Little Schemer" which is me following the exercises in the book "The Little Schemer". I like it so far.
Choose what you like.

>>13
The one thing you're missing out on with all of these languages is a type system
Sigh... no, dynamic typing is not the same as missing a type system. And static typing is stupid.

>>19
Its not the programmer's fault if the language is ignorant.

>>9
[quote]http://ee.veekipedia.oorg/veeki/Feesooel_Beseec[/quote]

You asshole, this link doesn't work!

>>23
[q]BBCODE FAILURE[/q]

>>19
Sure it is, because the nature of the language attracts ignorant programmers.

The second method allows you to blindly quote something. To utilise this enclose the text in [quote][/quote] tags. When you view the message it will simply show: Quote: before the text itself.

WTF? this is how 4chan says its done, why doesnt it work?

>>26 Reality != manuals.



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The basic objectives and principles of war do not change.The final objective in war is the destruction of the enemy's capacity and will to fight, and thereby force him to accept the imposition of the victor's will.

>>23
Curse you and Feesooel Beseec.

>Ive always wondered how quoting works.

To everyone who thinks strong typing is so awesome, go download the Axiom CAS and check out how nightmarish it can make writing code.  Just try to get anything meaningful done while keeping track of which of the ten subtly different polynomial types your variables are in, and digging through the 18,000 (srsly) page reference manual trying to figure out which one you actually need.

If you've never seen a type() call return 4 lines of output, here's your chance.

>>23
>>26
LURK IN GREATER QUANTITIES

[quote]hi[/quote]

>>31
Im just gonna keep trying until I get it right.

[quote = this is a quote!]

[quote="testing"][/quote]

<span class='quote'>THis is a quote</span>

['quote']another test[/'quote']

>> another test

>another fucking test<

[>]Why is this so difficult to figure out?[/>]

I'll be pissed if this one works.