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What is the Most flexible language

Name: Anonymous 2008-12-31 6:12

An example: you can redefine the names of functions, how you call
them
Manipulate syntax and compilation with inline code or rewrite the rules.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-21 4:59

>>10
What do you mean by first-class macros? Do you mean Scheme's hygenic ones?
You don't know what first-class means? And you call yourself a Lisper ;)
Let's run down the list shall we?
    * can be stored in variables and data structures
    * can be passed as a parameter to a subroutine
    * can be returned as the result of a subroutine
    * can be constructed at runtime
    * has intrinsic identity (independent of any given name)

Saying Scheme's macros aren't `real'
As real as CLs
which work by executing real code and generating the output expression objects
You can do the former with syntax-case, and we kinda do the latter (but with syntax objects rather than sexprs, which have additional lexical binding info (and usually source line etc...))
With proper use of gensyms and packages, my macros are just as safe, and a lot more flexible
I'd say the entire point of a "hygienic by default" macro system is that you don't always need to worry about the former. As for flexiblity, I'm not so sure. The only thing that syntax-rules can't do is create new (non-"gensym"ed) symbols, and you have syntax-case for that. Oleg Kisolyov even wrote a Scheme->syntax-rules compiler at one point.

since most CL coders simply don't need them and prefer CL's ``real'' macros instead.
Given the general arrogance of Lispers, I'd say they would probably think they were the best thing since sliced bread if they had been mature 20 years ago and was in the CL standard, but since it isn't, it is obviously an inferior toy.

Name: >>12 2010-05-21 5:06

>>10
If you don't like syntax-rules, or even hygienic-by-default macros, thats fine. But please stop spouting the same shit every time a discussion about macros comes up.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-21 5:24

>>14
I was just using the standard definition, since that is what most people mean. Although I'd need to wait for OP to clarify.

Name: Anonymous 2010-05-21 5:53

>>17
pardon my ignorance of forth, but does forth even have a macro/procedure distinction?

Typical Blub programmers who are absolutely sure that they are not
I really wish people didn't get all their info about what lispers are like from paul graham

I mean, ignorance becomes so much funnier when mixed with elitism!
how true

>>9
Xach on 4ch? more likely than I think, apparently

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