>>8
Joel is cranky because he has to put up with hiring people, but that's his goddamn job, and by his own choices. If it bothered himi so much he could always get a job where that sort of thing didn't matter. I for one think Java is an excellent language
to start with; it forces structure on the newbie programmer in a way that the more dynamic languages don't necessarily do.
The point shouldn't be to "scare away first-year students". That's a stupid idea. If they want to learn to be programmers, great. Give them a curriculum that teaches them how to program effectively, lay out and organize code logically, and teach them stuff they're actually going to use in the real world. Most acutal businesses use C++, Java, or Visual Basic. Sorry, it's true.
To his defense, I agree that lower-level languages should be required parts of any CS curriculum. Exposure to multiple, distinctly different languages is of obvious benefit; it reinforces concepts and teaches people how to
learn a new programming language as opposed to simply how to use one. Show 'em Java, C, Assembly, Forth, Lisp, Haskell. By the end they'll be able to figure out pretty much anything you can throw at them, or they'll have changed majors because they just can't hack it. But for Christ's sake, some of these kids just don't have the mental grasp to understand the sort of complex logic required for successfully getting through SICP right from the first semester. Set the bar too low and you get dumbasses, but set it too fucking high and you don't get anyone.