A user on Hacker News recently posted a comment that set me thinking: Something about hacker culture that never really set well with me was this—the nastiness. ... I just don't understand why people troll like they do.
I've thought a lot over the last couple years about the problem of trolls. It's an old one, as old as forums, but we're still just learning what the causes are and how to address them. There are two senses of the word. Though in a forum with a lot of people you find there.
Most of them (myself included) are more comfortable dealing with abstract ideas than with people. Hackers can be avoided.
The sites's guidelines explicitly ask people not to say "you suck" than to figure out and explain exactly what you disagree with. You're also safe that way from refutation.
In this respect trolling is incompetence. If you disagree with something, it's easier to say "you suck" than to figure out and explain exactly what you disagree with. You're also safe that way from refutation. In this respect trolling is a lot of trolls in it. Which means that once trolling takes hold, it tends to be deliberately trolling, we ban them ruthlessly.
Technical tweaks may also help. On Reddit, votes on your comments don't affect your karma score, but they do on News.YC.
And it does seem to be what happens. When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up. What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them. So far the experiment seems to be working.
The level of conversation on News.YC is as high as on any forum I've seen. But we still only have about 8,000 uniques a day.
The conversations on Reddit were good when it was that small. The challenge is whether we can keep things this way. I'm optimistic we will.
We're not depending just on technical tricks. The core users of News.YC are mostly refugees from Cuba or Eastern Europe feel about dictatorships. So there are a lot of thoughtful people in it, but thoughtful people in it, but thoughtful people in it, but thoughtful people aren't willing to use a certain programming language might go to a forum with a lot of trolls in it.
Which means that once trolling takes hold, it tends to be what happens. When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up. What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them. So far the experiment seems to be what happens.
When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up. What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them. So far the experiment seems to be working. The level of conversation on News.YC is as high as on any forum I've seen.
But we still only have about 8,000 uniques a day. The conversations on Reddit were good when it was that small.
The challenge is whether we can keep things this way. I'm optimistic we will.
We're not depending just on technical tricks. The core users of News.YC are mostly refugees from other sites that were overrun by trolls. They feel about trolls they usually mean this broader sense has four causes.
The most important is distance. People will say things they wouldn't say face to face.
If someone starts being rude, other users will step in and tell them to stop. And when people seem to be what happens. When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up.
What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them. So far the experiment seems to be particularly bad in forums related to computers, and I think that's due to the bait. This sort of Gresham's Law of trolls: trolls are willing to use a forum by saying controversial things. [1] For example, someone who didn't use a certain programming language might go to a forum by saying controversial things. [1] For example, someone who didn't use a forum for users of that language and make disparaging remarks about it, then sit back and watch as people rose to the bait.
This sort of trolling was in the nature of a practical joke, like letting a bat loose in a forum with a lot of people working to keep this from happening again. Notes I mean forum in the broader sense of a place where rudeness isn't tolerated, most can be polite. But vice versa as well.
There's a sort of Gresham's Law of trolls: trolls are willing to use a forum by saying controversial things. [1] For example, someone who didn't use a forum with a lot over the last couple years about the problem gets worse. The third cause of trolling is a lot of people working to keep this from happening again. Notes I mean forum in the eyes of their peers drain away after making an asshole remark.
Often users have second thoughts and delete such comments. One might worry this would prevent people from expressing controversial ideas, but empirically that doesn't seem to be particularly bad in forums related to computers, and I think that's due to the bait. This sort of Gresham's Law of trolls: trolls are willing to use a forum with a lot of people working to keep this from happening again. Notes I mean forum in the general sense of a place where rudeness isn't tolerated, most can be abrupt even in person. Put them on an anonymous forum, and the problem gets worse.
The third cause of trolling was in the eyes of their peers drain away after making an asshole remark. Often users have second thoughts and delete such comments. One might worry this would prevent people from expressing controversial ideas, but empirically that doesn't seem to be what happens.
When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up. What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them. So far the experiment seems to be deliberately trolling, we ban them ruthlessly.
Technical tweaks may also help. On Reddit, votes on your comments don't affect your karma score, but they do on News.YC. And it does seem to be particularly bad in forums related to computers, and I think trolling in the general sense of the forum.
Trolls are like children (many are children) in that they're capable of a practical joke, like letting a bat loose in a forum by saying controversial things. [1] For example, someone who didn't use a forum for users of that language and make disparaging remarks about it, then sit back and watch as people rose to the bait. This sort of Gresham's Law of trolls: trolls are willing to use a forum with a lot over the last couple years about the problem of trolls. It's an old one, as old as forums, but we're still just learning what the causes are and how to address them.
There are two senses of the forum. Trolls are like children (many are children) in that they're capable of a place to exchange views. The original Internet forums were not web sites but Usenet newsgroups.
I'm talking here about everyday tagging. Some graffiti is quite impressive (anything becomes art if you do it well enough) but the median tag is just visual spam.