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Programming tests on pencil & paper?

Name: Anonymous 2007-05-31 21:35 ID:YTnK448u

How hard is it to cut off access to the Internet in a computer lab and give programming tests with a text editor and compiler? Do most universities administer tests on programming on paper, or does my school (a state university) just suck? I would have been done with that test today way faster if I had access to cutting and copying and shit, not to mention who writes a program and doesn't even compile it?

Name: Anonymous 2007-05-31 21:44 ID:JVhtNrTz

>>1
you should be able to write code without compiling, thats kind of the whole point

Name: Anonymous 2007-05-31 22:25 ID:Heaven

>>1
Get out of programming. Now.

Name: Anonymous 2007-05-31 22:37 ID:rfgHl1fA

How hard is it to cut off access to the Internet in a computer lab
Pull the chord out of the fucking wall, Einstein.

Name: Anonymous 2007-05-31 22:44 ID:YTnK448u

>>2
>>3
Alright, well I'm sure I aced it, I just was curious if that was the educational standard. Especially since administering tests like that go against all the good programming principles (well thought out test plan and program sketch before approaching the computer, thorough testing, etc.) that the professor has been pounding into our heads since day 1.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 1:29 ID:a3EO3y8S

I just was curious if that was the educational standard.
It's the standard. Including at interviews (ho, ho, ho).

Especially since administering tests like that go against all the good programming principles
lol wut?

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 1:32 ID:fOj5nv79

All programming tests at my university are with pencil and paper. I think being able to use a text editor in a test wouldn't hurt (I hate writing by hand) but actually compiling the programs would defeat the purpose of the tests.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 10:08 ID:V2tWtHib

at MY university, it is the standard. Then again there aren't many computers to do the test.
>but actually compiling the programs would defeat the purpose of the tests.
I don't think so. There aren't that many advantages. Take in mind you won't fail if you have one or two little mistakes.
Unless you mean that it prevents people from writing working programs via try and fail rute until it works. Well... If you write programs that way:
a. your code is gonna suck, unless you rewrite lotsa stuff which is ok, but
b. it takes longer if you stop every second to compile.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 13:47 ID:fOj5nv79

>>8
Unless you mean that it prevents people from writing working programs via try and fail rute until it works. Well... If you write programs that way:
a. your code is gonna suck, unless you rewrite lotsa stuff which is ok, but
b. it takes longer if you stop every second to compile.
That's what I mean. I've noticed that (particularly on, but not limited to, first year classes) trial-and-error programming is a very common and very undesirable practice.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 14:15 ID:1SOuASvj

>>1
All universities suck. You cannot learn programming from a university.
No programmer EVER writes code in paper.
He either uses vim or emacs. (Or MSVC, ew.)
How hard it is to cut off the internet in some computers?
Not hard at all.
If they wanted you to write code without compiling it they could just remove the access to the compiler.

>>7
Wrong. FFS, how do you think most bugs are being found to applications? nope, not when compiling but when people use them for stupid/weird things.
Take this for example

int main() {
char buffer[100];
fgets(buffer, 100, stdin);
printf(buffer);
return 0;
}

This is a basic 'echo' program with 2 problems.
1) the user might not enter a 0 eg
cat file | ./program
If `file' does not contain a null byte printf() will access unitiliazed elements of buffer. Those elements will contain what was before buffer in the stack, let's suppose there weren't any 0 bytes there too, then printf() will try to access buffer+100.. and propably get a segfault, except if it finds a null byte before it reaches unaccessed memory.
Also if the user enters more than 100 bytes, and the null byte is the 101th byte (let's suppose that) then 100 bytes will be written to the array and printf() won't find the null byte in those 100 elements of buffer.
2) If what the user enters contains format indentifiers, printf() will print things from the stack.
Solution?

int main() {
char buffer[100] = { 0 }; // zeroing all the elements of the array
fgets(buffer, 99, stdin);
printf("%s", buffer);
return 0;
}

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 14:37 ID:+6QSPGds

Why would you want to use printf with just "%s"?

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 14:44 ID:fOj5nv79

>>10
Wrong? How come? Compiling leads to running. Running leads to testing. Testing leads to ``Oh, now it works, let's submit it!''

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 14:47 ID:ltRX1xo6

All universities suck.
You sound bitter.

No programmer EVER writes code in paper.
Maybe, but good programmers can do it.

Wrong. FFS, how do you think most bugs are being found to applications?
There will always be bugs a compiler cannot find. But with a good language and a good programmer, most bugs will be found by the compiler.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 15:05 ID:Heaven

>>13
There will always be bugs a compiler cannot find. But with a good language and a good programmer, most bugs will be found by the compiler.
I smells a Haskell fag.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 15:36 ID:a3EO3y8S

No programmer EVER writes code in paper.
It case people missed it the first time, I will repeat: you will be doing this often at your interviews. Especially nowadays it's becoming common to filter bad candidates as soon as possible, so you can expect it soon after a phone interview, but before they give you an actual coding exam.

Do you get it now? Whether you like it or not, you'd better be able to do it.

Also to the guy who said he'd fail because a couple of syntax errors: get real. You will lose a possible job offer over it though (I have).

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 16:05 ID:Heaven

>>15
sorry i don't take coding exams.
I give speeches in universities about programming

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 16:19 ID:Heaven

>>16
I've been to every one of them, and I've come to the conclusion that your speeches suck.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 16:22 ID:Heaven

>>16
>>17
Same person (he has some problems).

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 16:37 ID:Heaven

>>16
>>17
>>18
Get some professional help.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 16:59 ID:IEXPzlrW

>>1
All universities that I know of do. Mine did. It sucked because I write programs from left to right as much as I do from top to bottom, i.e. I write every block and its ending, then tab into it and fill it inside. I had to do a few ugly things like insert lines after writing something, but it's not the worst thing ever anyways. If you're good enough you can do it.

Think about it, it could be much worse. You could be writing Java.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 17:01 ID:Heaven

>>16,19
You disgust me.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 17:01 ID:Heaven

>>16-19,21
Learn to quote

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 17:03 ID:Heaven

>>20
Writing Java with pencil and paper is absolutely horrible, by the way. C is a bit better, because the standard library function names are so much shorter. Haskell is almost tolerable.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-01 22:07 ID:iXYCE6Ou

OP just sounds like a lazy ass. I took written tests and quizzes for a java course and I had an almost perfect score for the class. Writing  code on paper is just like taking any other writing or short answer test. If you can not write it down you do not know it. Besides, having the test on paper makes it harder to cheat which is fairer for everyone in the class. A test on a computer would have to be administered in a computer lab where it is harder to monitor all the students.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 16:22 ID:xXyjr3uu

>>24
OP here. I prefer to think of it as efficient, not lazy. It turns out I got 100/100 on that test, and in my Java class last semester I got close enough to perfect scores the whole time too. I'm just saying archaic pencils and barbaric erasers are relics of an age long past.

All you'd have to do is install some program in the computer lab that lets the TA watch your screen, that would be even better at preventing cheating than administering tests on paper. Either way as long as net access is cut off the only resources someone would have is on paper, which is easy to catch.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 16:29 ID:5wZVcSS8

>>25
fuck off and die?

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 16:30 ID:xXyjr3uu

>>26
eat a cock

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 20:34 ID:lLsEWmhf

>>27
eat a cook

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 20:52 ID:gfgB5vr3

>>27
eac a took

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 21:51 ID:wdQ2wwOW

>>28-29
cat o cake

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 22:47 ID:Gj7wTM5M

>>30
Here, have a candy.

Name: Anonymous 2007-06-03 22:50 ID:Heaven

>>31
You know that would've been a lot funnier if you'd have put #VIPPE in the name field.

Name: !GZO15gPeDo 2007-06-03 23:05 ID:Heaven

>>32
There there.

Name: Anonymous 2009-01-14 14:27

C considered harmful

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-06 6:25

The SICP successor at?

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