MIT's scheme gets Pythonic

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1840

ONE WORD, THE FORCED INDENTATION OF CODE, THREAD OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh I just actually read the article, this is awful.

SIFIC?

The new book will be SIPCP, Structure and Interpretation of Pythonic Computer Programs.

Now if you excuse me I'll go siphon some Captain Picard episodes off eMule.

Python isn't that bad, but I'd have prefered Ocaml or Haskell.

>>7
Haskell would be a particularly bad language for the purpose because it is unable to teach `normal' programming with side effects.

(I have read SICP and I'm a Haskell fag.)

>>8
That's a feature not a bug.

>>9
When teaching the basics of programming, that is not a feature. Haskell is one of the very few purely functional languages used at all in the real world. Using Haskell for an introductory programming course is about as stupid as using Java for the same.

>>8,10
That's not true. Haskell has extensive support for imperative programming. Mix that with Haskell's excellent expressiveness and you've got one awesome learning language.

At least it's not Java

>>11
Did I mention I am a Haskell fag? I know that Haskell supports imperative programming, but it does that in a way that is different enough from almost anything else to make it a bad choice for teaching introductory programming.

I don't think Python is too great a teaching language, either, compared to Scheme, but Abelson & Sussman seem to be supporting it, so maybe I'm just wrong.

>>13

Why teach imperative programming then?

When you're teaching the basic concepts of programming, it might be helpful to use a language that ISN'T in common industrial use—then the concepts can be presented separated from the syntax of any particular programming language. The concepts learnt can then be mapped onto other syntax later.

This is speaking from personal experience of several friends who have *never* programmed before doing the same course as me; we at first learnt C (why?), and then Java. It took them a while to formulate the abstract ideas behind the syntax of C and apply them liberally. At first they were stuck in a somewhat syntax-is-everything mentality; for example, it took a while for 'method=function' to stick.

Silly I know, but it continues to surprise me what they have problems with when they've *never* touched code before.

>>13
How is the IO monad together with IORefs different from 'standard' imperative programming?

>>14
Because imperative programming in some form is necessary to do anything except very trivial programs. In Scheme, it can be fluently mixed in to otherwise functional programs with a single keyword, which is conceptually easily mappable to the programming model of almost any non-purely-functional language.

>>15
It strictly separates code with side effects from functional code.

ｷﾀ━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━(∀ﾟ )━(ﾟ　 )━(　　)━(　　)━(　 ﾟ)━( ﾟ∀)━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━ !!

goddamn losers.

if you're not able to do it in C, it's not the language, it's you. You fail.

>>16
What's your point? If you want imperative, you can run everything in the IO monad.

>>18
if you're not able to do it in assembly, it's not the language, it's you. You fail.
Fixed

>>20
if it's not possible to do it in assembly, it's not you, it's the computer

Fixed

if it's not possible to do it in assembly, it's not you, it's your computer which is not turing-complete

Fixed

>if it's not possible to do it in assembly, it's not you, it's your computer which is not touring-complete

Fixed

If it's not possible to do it in BBcode, it's not worth doing.

Fixed.

>>24
sotrue

>>23
Psst, it's Turing-complete

not a bad move.  Python is a good language to learn programming to smart people.

I learned all my basic courses in java, which is great too, because it's just soooo fucking simple.

>>26

Troll

Python is a good language to learn programming to smart people.
Hahaha, what?

Have you ever used Python? It doesn't take brains.

Which is the point of the language; it's easy.

>>29
From the statement
learn programming to smart people
I'm guessing that >>27 doesn't have brains.

in b4 forced indenting.

>>31
That was the second post, you stupid shit.

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