Java, lol

I was told by a game developer at this seminar that if I want to learn how to program games, a good way to start is with Java and making cellphone games. I plan on learning C++ before Java anyway but around how long would it take a newbie to learn Java or when would it be a good idea to learn Java if not at all?

And same with VisualBasic cause I heard they'll be teaching it to us next year at my highschool and I'm not sure if I want to learn it and pick up bad habits or whatever.

If you're going to be learning Java and C++ start with Java because it's less headache to start with (the headaches come later when you find it's just not powerful enough) then learn C++ after. Don't even touch VB. Consider leaving school to avoid it.

It takes about a month to get the basics of Java (I recommmend B. Eckel "Thinking in Java" as a guide to Java world :) )

About Java and C++ (I'm NOT trying to start a flame war here): both languages have their weak points, and you certainly can find places where C++ is "not powerful enough" (portability or advanced webapps for example). But this is an oppinion of a well-known Java freak. ;)

>It takes about a day to get the basics of Java
fixed.

Get one of those "Learn Java in 30 days" books, lock yourself in your basement on a lazy saturday, and plow through the entire book in one day. Seriously, it's a cakewalk.

Start with C++, then spend a while with Java to realize how much it sucks and is full of enterprisey bullshit; do not under any circumstance start with Java lest you fall into the enterprisey bullshit trap and become stupid.

portability or advanced webapps for example
rofl

>>6

Erm.. we are speaking English here. Wtf does enterprisey bsht mean?

Instead of rotfling, provide us with some arguments

>>7

4chan is not serious business you idiot.
YOU FAIL AT 4CHAN !!!

IN before scalable object-oriented enterprise solution that is web 2.0 ready

We should synergize scalable J2EE and XML to create a best-of-breed Web 2.0-based service to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

That's enterprisey, and the Java world reeks of this shit. Who in their right mind uses Java unless they're paid to? If you actually like the language, you're seriously fucked in the head; it makes even C++ look nice, fer fuck's sake.

I've had to use that crappy language on-and-off since 1.1 (and it just keeps getting worse), and it's the only language of the dozen or so I've written software in that I can say I genuinely hate.

Java has one good thing going for it though: every ad that contains the word "Java" screams "Stay away! Your soul will be eaten by an elder god!". If it wasn't for the saving grace of filtering out the real dreg jobs of the software industry, I'd say we should burn Joy and Gosling on an oaken stake, liquidate Sun, and salt the earth their offices sat on. Only then can we enter software nirvana.

Never start with C++, you'll only fail. It's a horribly insane language. While there are dozens of languages more suitable than Java as a learning language, if the choice is between C++ and Java, I'd recommend Java every time. Similarly if I were starving and I had a choice between shit and maggots I'd go for the maggots. Of course given the choice I'd have steak and chips with a generous portion of gravy, but just as starving Ethiopians know nothing of steak, many student programmers know nothing of LISP.

if the choice is between C++ and Java, I'd recommend staying the fuck away from programming.
fixed.

c++ is one of the hardest languages to start with but if you have to choose between java and c++, id recomend c++.

c++ is one of the hardest metals (if not the hardest) known by the man


ps
how do i quote like >>12 ?

ps
how do i quote like >>12 ?
like this.

>>15
| ps
how do i quote like >>12 ?
like this?

If you think C++ sucks, then you are too stupid for it and you should stay the fuck away from game programming.  Too many Java programmers have tried and failed to properly balance the graphics pipeline.

>>17
this is where Ogre comes in handy.

>>14

>like this

except you need to add a space after the greater than sign. This will also add a new line after the quote, so make sure you space your lines properly.

>>1
For games, I recommend starting with Irrlicht. It's not very powerful but it's ridiculously easy to use, and it's also under the zlib license (i.e. free for anything, do whatever you want with it) as opposed to the more restrictive LGPL.

i took a java class last year. i believe i have a firm understanding of the language.

now, knowing this, how should i start myself off on c++?

3D libraries lols

>>21
Depends what you want to do with it. Are you looking to program high-performance computations? Are you looking to program games? Are you looking to create large-scale applications?

applications with a slighly less than 'large-scale' nature, i would say

>>24
ELABORATE

>>25
H-Games

>>26
If shitty japanese programmers can make h-game software, then anyone can.

>>1
Hahaha oh no.

First learn C. Not C++, C. If it's too hard, do Pascal first, then C. Use only the standard input and standard output. conio.h if you get bored. Learn to write proper structured code and understand everything that happens at low-level (C pointers and strings). Then move on to a high level, object-oriented, preferrably multi-paradigm language like Python or Ruby. Not Java, it's one of the worst OO languages ever and a piece of shit overall no matter how you look at it.

Then you'll be in a position to decide what to use for your games. I suggest a high level language like Python with existing graphics libraries like PyGame. You can get fairly serious with it, without getting fairly costly and unproductive as it would be to do that in C++.

>>28
Yeah, you could use python for your games, if you want them to be piece of shit tetris clones.

conio.h if you get bored.

1993 called. They want their compilers back.

Other than that, I agree.

>>29
OMG Python is a high-level language, therefore inefficient! Let's use pure Assembly! And disregard OpenGL, it's a bloated high-level API therefore inefficient, let's write our own video driver!

>>30
Last time I checked it was still available and builtin in my lcc-win32; it's just good to have newbies learn the language while entertaining them in a simple way that doesn't deter much from the real purpose. So if they get bored with prime numbers, you ask them to draw a real Eratosthenes Sieve or something.

>>31
No, let's avoid Python because it's trash for writing games.  OpenGL is fine.  Continue.

>>31
w4ch driver for your videocard, how cool can that be!

>let's write our own video driver!
signing this

>>33
>>34
I'm not sure stuff like scan conversion is as exciting as you think it is.

>>32
Elaborate and explain or GTFO

FYI for general OpenGL fuckery java is fine and fast enough.

Seriously both C++ and Java are poor languages. At least Java is better.

>>36
Python is slow with 3D and AI code, which make up a large part of games.  Therefore, it is not a good choice for game programming.

>>37
You have obviously never coded anything useful, let alone a scenegraph based game engine.  GTFO out this discussion.

>>38
You've never finished anything so stop talking.

I must say that yes, Java and C++ are poor languages in general. You may want to consider dabbling is a simpler language like Python or Perl,
Try learning OpenGL or SQL; they're excellent for graphics.