unix n00bs

unix n00bs (i.e. most of you here) make me shit my pants

for the love of god, people, using unix for a month is not enough to make you knowledgeable in its ways and give advice to others. please refrain from making yourself look like complete utter idiots (mind you, this is hard to achieve since idiots are the norm in CS) by giving horribly shitty authorative-sounding suggestions based on shit you read two days ago on linuxtoday and newsforge.

discuss.

Clueless newbies with just enough knowledge to be dangerous giving advice to other newbies clueless enough to trust them is hardly a phenomenon that is limited to unix.

And it makes me want to kill.

a) You're right, but...
b) I don't see much *nix-oriented discussion here.

What, three threads ever? YHBT.

Idiots are the norm in CS?  I wouldn't call most of the people who took vector calculus or

what was I just saying? oh right, Im anonymous and I'm on the interweb and im so good at unix cause I read some gib koogs or somehinthg?

>>1
Give examples to make your rant less incoherent.

idiots use unix.

end of discus.

Someone, somewhere, is weeping that the art of trolling is dead.

>>8
The rest of us are weeping that OP isn't...

info
man
howtos
google

Please use them ;_;
To use UNIX is to learn how to help yourself.
;_; I wish students would listen to me when I teach the labs ;_;

>>10
I agree, even though info sucks hairy ass

>>10
You would have liked me as a student, I never bothered the lab tutors except to occasionally ask why they were letting all the Java "programmers" use Windows.

Why would I want to see idiots stop giving advice on unix? Nothing humors me more than people claiming to know about POSIX environments (linu.x/unix) totally bury themselves, and I honestly do anything I can to keep them going so I can humiliate them afterwards. This is the only way they will learn.

gb2/windows/

I wouldnt call myself a POSIX expert, but 2 years ago, Windows pissed me off to the point of refusing to go back to using it (corrupted my MySQL databases in a botched conversion I never authorized it to do). I forced myself to learn it so I would be able to never use Windows again, and truth be told, I'm glad I did. I run KDE, but I'm never not running a comsole. I'm not claiming to be a POSIX wizard, but I do know enough to spot a n00b moron.

POSIX is just another way of saying flip flopper.

>>13
Warning, n00b moron with delusions of grandeur spotted!

>>13
Oh this HAS to be irony.

>>13
corrupted my MySQL databases in a botched conversion I never authorized it to do

You should be the one gb2/windows'ing, and learning how to use that OS before bitching.

I find it fun how when people screws up in Linux, they're "learning" and "controlling the OS", while if they screw up in Windows, it's "stupid Windows doing stuff".

I've been using both Windows NT and Linux for years (programming, running servers, making bread, etc.), and never screwed up that badly in either. I'm always admin/root, and work in the console (adding my own gadgets so the Windows console is almost as powerful as Linux).

I'm never not running a comsole
WTF, I prefer not to assume what does this mean because it wouldn't say much of you...

lol if a computer is unstable it is your fault.

A while ago my 2.4 kernel kept panicking when I was playing games. I never managed to figure out what was causing it, but upgrading to 2.6 fixed the problem.

Anecdote related.

>>19 That's rich. I've never had 2.6 kernel work on my (new and predbuilt) computer worth a damn. Sometimes it will work if I use the right combination of acpi=off, noapic and chickenbones. Even then, all that it does is boot and then die randomly.

Upgrading to NetBSD fixed the problem. ^^

2.6 works here, but every time I've used it I've had issues. They're all minor, but they're also annoying. Most recently 2.6.11.11 had rounding errors with my mouse.

2.4 you're the only one.

I just realised I've been using Unix for 19 years now. lol.
Learning it all on massively multiuser -minicomputers- was damned fun (where every computer had an 'online' community like websites today..)

Been using linux and some BSDs for 5 years now.
And i still think im a unix noob.

I've been using linux/bsd regularly (but not exclusively) since 98. I don't consider myself either a n00b or a wizard; just a user.

I've been using Linux for less than a year. I'm still a n00b - but I can already use Linux more easily than Windows, despite my lifetime of experience with that particular program. (Hint: if you design a GUI such that performing any given task is an np-complete problem for your users, your users are gonna get pissed)

Oh yeah? Like what?

If you're talking about the server, sure. If you're talking about the desktop, then you're seriously full of shit.

>>26
When my new desktop is complete I'm going to retire the current one to fileserver-in-the-corner status. I'm gonna stick BSD on it for variety. Linux is a great desktop.

Linux is a great desktop.

No, it's not.

Certainly, if you feel like dicking around with the system to set it up just right, then maybe it's for you. But most people don't want to spend several hours to a couple of days tweaking files, digging through google and newsgroups to resolve issues, possibly recompiling kernels, patching software and hacking code for things they really want but don't work, and then still wondering why X, Y and Z doesn't work, because nobody else has had that problem before. Or maybe it works, but works poorly.

That's just the beginning of the story. The interfaces that OSS GUIs present is inconsistent and just generally poor. All that work for this?

Linux is a hacker chewtoy. And after a few years (ie, like me), you'll get sick and tired of it. You get tired of solving the same set of problems for the five-thousanth time. You just want it to fucking work already. For servers, fine, but I'd die young from high blood pressure if I had to tolerate it as a desktop.

Well it works for me.

RE: "The interfaces that OSS GUIs present is inconsistent and just generally poor."; you might want to take a look at Gnome's latest efforts. Seems they've finally decided to make a real push for proper usability, as opposed to merely "yeah you can click on it if you don't like the console..."

To be honest I do like dicking around with my system, that's why I use Gentoo most of them time. But I also keep an Ubuntu install handy for those days when I cannot be bothered and want my computer to Just Work (TM)

you might want to take a look at Gnome's latest efforts

The problem is that many applications ignore the HIG, and others use a different toolkit.

>>28

My stance exactly. I couldn't have expressed it better.

>But most people don't want to spend several hours to a couple of days tweaking files

Most people think the CDROM drive is a coffee mug holder.

Wanting to learn how a computer actually operates is NEVER a bad thing-- unless you're a scab who likes charging people $100 to install (Windows) software that could've done themselves. I work at a non-profit ISP/Freenet; those people who think learning about computers is a waste of their time and beneath them are (a) 99% of the service calls (b) should have never fucking bought a computer in the first place.

Just got done reading this article. Discusses some interesting solutions to the "linux desktop problem"

http//akaimb/...

Good read. I started off skeptical, but by the end I was of the opinion that the author has some damn good ideas.

Oh, great. One of the myopic elitists shows up.

Most people think the CDROM drive is a coffee mug holder.

No, they don't. Don't be an idiot.

There's more to life than fucking around with a computer. As much as it may surprise you, a computer is a tool. Why should anyone waste time with such an obtuse system when there's one that mostly works, and another that really does work?

My time is valuable. I know the machine inside out already, and chances are high I know it better than you do. So why do I have to fix stupidities to get the system working? Who is going to reimburse me for the time lost? And what about people who earn excess of $200 an hour? People who don't need to know the minutiae of some fancy calculator with memory to do their vocation?

Do you know your car inside out? Can you fix your cellphone? Do you do all the electrical wiring and plumbing in your house? Do you do all your taxes yourself, after reading the tax code? Do you do your own legal opinions? Do you give a shit about these things?

>>34
It's all "me me me" isn't it?

No one is asking you to do any of these things. Calm the fuck down.

You bet it's about "me". I've stated clearly why linux makes a poor desktop for John Doe, and many power users as well. They're all asking, "Why should I use this? What's in it for me?" They don't care about elitist geek wankery, nor should they. Not everything rotates around computers.

Of course, the answer to their question is: it's waste of time. Spend some money to get a better prepared desktop, then go outside and do something more worthwhile.

>>32 just don't get it. Do you?

These days, if it takes someone "several hours" to get a functional linux desktop, either they're using Gentoo, or they're incompetent.

Someone who has that much difficulty with it SHOULD stick to windows since their time is valuble.

Meanwhile, those of us who can manage to sort it out in a reasonable amount of time, and who like having the options and variety that using a unix desktop provides should be free to use that.

It's not a binary world; don't like unix? Don't use it. But don't you fucking dare suggest that I stop using BSD as a desktop. Just because YOU can't set up a GUI, firefox, media player and word processor doesn't mean that I should be held down to the level of the stupidest AOL user.

GB2/windows if it makes you happy; but let those of us who want to use unix, use it.

>>37
Exactly.

>>37
Wait no, I didn't read it properly. I agree with the second half, but I left Windows precisely because my time is valuable, and I don't like wasting it trying to get my computer to do what I damn well tell it.

Also: >>36
I hope to Jebus you're talking about MacOS when you talk about "a better prepared desktop" because if you consider Windows an example of good UI then your opinion no longer counts for jack in my estimation.

you're talking about MacOS

Duhhhhhhrrrr. Obviously. However, windows isn't as bad as the OSS fanboys make it out either. Oh, no, Micro$oft suks lolol!

but let those of us who want to use unix, use it.

Duhhhhhhrrrr. Obviously. It's your life.

or they're incompetent

Or they're using non-standard hardware. Or they want an option that wasn't compiled into the binary by default. Or something doesn't work properly. Or they want to change an option (how many programs don't expose all their options through the GUI?).
Or, god forbid, they want to use software you buy off the shelf (your mom won't be running Wine to use photoshop or quicken).

It ain't no "great desktop". A great desktop is OSX. At least it's a unix that got its shit together finally, even if it's fat.

that I stop using BSD as a desktop

You fail at reading comprehension. "It has a poor desktop" != "Don't use it".