Why all the hysteria over Ayn Rand?

Altruism means "serve everyone but yourself" when the logical thing to do from the utilitarian perspective is to serve everyone including yourself.


The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others.


Ayn Rand meant selfishness in the sense of standing up for yourself. There are many real life examples of where the traditional roles of selfishness and altruism are overturned, where selfishness is good and altruism is evil. For instance if you're being bullied the altruistic thing to do would be to sacrifice your own personal gain for others, by sitting there and taking it like a little bitch. The selfish thing to do would be to gain pleasure at the expense of others, escape, tell your bros then jump them the next day, spraying them up with mace and beating them with phone books.

I don't agree with Ayn Rand on everything, I believe the "common good" as a concept has been abused, not that it is invalid. The common good should ideally be democratic concerning groups and include individual rights when the group is at odds with the individual.

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/altruism.html
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/common_good.html

However I have never heard anyone criticize Ayn Rand on these legitimate points and issues, only ever "hurr durr selfish randroids derp".

Because most people can't or won't separate the idea of selfishness with the idea of greed. They want to believe that living for yourself means stepping on everyone else and that capitalism means cutting throats when none of that matches up with anything Rand wrote.

I too have never heard someone actually present a convincing argument against Objectivism, you only ever see rhetoric and comments on her ability as a fiction writer. I would love it if opponents to her ideas addressed the substance of the philosophy, presenting clear, logical challenges but alas, all you get is rhetoric from the religious, communists, socialists, people who think mistakenly think you support the republican party and people who watch Fox news coverage of Ron Paul.

Randism is only acceptable if you are disabled, as in quadriplegic disabled like a "Magikarp".
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You look like a asshole if you attack a blind, drooling stump who owns the planet's gold.

>>3
Perfect example of what I'm talking about.

>>2
I suppose hating on Ayn Rand is part of the general left wing versus right wing thing, it would be easier just to stick her name on the list of things the left wing are supposed to hate than to fund an organized attempt to discredit her ideas. Her name is also put on the list of things the right wing are supposed to worship, which possibly does more to discredit her ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttYrF5gtrXs

That is not what Ayn Rand said at all.

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/charity.html
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/sacrifice.html


It is altruism that has corrupted and perverted human benevolence by regarding the giver as an object of immolation, and the receiver as a helplessly miserable object of pity who holds a mortgage on the lives of others—a doctrine which is extremely offensive to both parties, leaving men no choice but the roles of sacrificial victim or moral cannibal .


There are some mainstream evaluations of her work that are neither completely ignorant or fawning obsession though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_the_Market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand_and_the_World_She_Made

Of course they are not very popular and the ignorance does reach right to the top.

http://www.thedailydolt.com/2012/10/26/obama-on-paul-ryans-hero-ayn-rand-is-something-you-pick-up-when-youre-17-or-18-and-feeling-misunderstood/


Then, as we get older, we realize that a world in which we’re only thinking about ourselves and not thinking about anybody else


Obama is either oblivious to the basics of Ayn Rand's philosophy and just repeated some rhetoric he heard somewhere or he is intentionally reinforcing the rhetoric.

>>3
Why would the quadriplegic Magikarp suffer if others believed in "randism"? Do you have any sources that can reveal to us what is wrong with Ayn Rand?

>>4
I will ask him.

>>3
Why would the quadriplegic Magikarp suffer if others believed in "randism"? Do you have any sources that can reveal to us what is wrong with Ayn Rand?

>>5
I find it hilarious how often opponents use that "I read her work when I was 18 but now I know better! Herp derp", as if ideas such as self-respect, honest hard work and love based on merit are childish ideas. It's really amazing how often that non-arguement is repeated.

>>6
If Gyarados if fucking up Magikarps, then the Magikarp will take longer to evolve, the trainers lose millions in Yen and the owner of the Gyarados is allowed to continue assaulting helpless Magikarps without any accountability.

It's sad that I have to explain this in Pokemon terms to get through to your autistic mind. I know these last two sentences will harden your heart to what I'm trying to tell you but you need to face the fact that not all Magikarp have the full set of 4 moves in their move set menu.

It is worse than that. The GOP, when faced with the Democrats agreeing with their stance, then moved the goal posts.
R: We won't budge unless you cut spending on this program.
D: OK
R: We won't budge unless you cut spending on this other program.
D: OK, we'll cut that too.
R: (getting flustered) We won't budge unless you... uh, agree to, uh... Oh, hell, I've got nothing. We just won't budge.
D: *Facepalm*.

http://youtu.be/GMuB5LXtxOo

That is true.

>>8
I was just humoring you to maintain the flow of conversation, the truth is I have only very limited knowledge of pokemon and I'm having difficulting understanding the analogy now.

I assume you're saying we should be altruistic and stop Gyarados hurting Magikarp or Magikarp won't be a good worker and we will lose millions in Yen.

Well, if we lose millions of Yen by not helping doesn't that mean helping is an act of self-interest? That's not really a good argument against Ayn Rand.

We should be discussing situations where someone needs help but can't return the favor.

>>7
It is almost as though the idea of thinking practically corresponds to their idea of being evil.

Altruism is a path to human happiness, it's a drug that has no damaging side effects, only positive ones. Give it a try - it make take some getting used to the taste

Whether it's real altruism - true giving - or selfish altruism just to get a good feeling - is irrelevant. Either way it makes the world a much better place.

>>13
Altruism is giving a fish to a hungry man everyday and then one to everyone else who turns up looking for free food. Altruism is starving to death because you gave everything away while having to listen to how it's your "duty" to serve those you feed if you try to eat something you caught yourself.

Objectivism is agreeing to trade your knowledge of fishing in exchange for a reasonable amount of fish that is fair and honest. Objectivism is hiring that man for regular produce, paying him a fair wage and then selling the produce for profit.

hehehe... good goyim

>>1
Ayn Rand is a bloody Jewish harpy, full of zionaizms.


If you mean whose side one should be on, Israel or the Arabs, I would certainly say Israel because it's the advanced, technological, civilized country amidst a group of almost totally primitive savages who have not changed for years and who are racist and who resent Israel because it's bringing industry, intelligence, and modern technology into their stagnation. -- Ayn Rand, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU

>>16
Would you prefer to live under Zionists or Islamic extremists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Despite some complaints of discrimination against arabs there don't seem to be any major problems.

>>17
extremists
Redundant.
Zionists
Anything to sugarcoat shit, just say jewish next time you mean jewish. Zionist is a deferrence word.

>>18
When you say "jews" you mean 100% of all jews, including the 150000 jews who fought for Germany in ww2, anti-zionist jews who dislike Israel, Alex Jones, Brother Nathanael and baby jews.

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html

I'm not changing the wording of my question, you're just going to have to start distinguishing between cultural marxist jews and good wholesome upstanding jews.

>>16
But she was right about the arabs.

>>19
Alex Jones is a shill for Israel and does anything to defer culpability from jews or if he ever implicates people who are jewish he refers to them by a number of even more deferential terms: banksters, mafiaso, bilderbergers, reptilians.
Norman Finklestein would have been a better example.

Didn't know about this Brother Nathanael guy before, and he does speak a lot of poignant truth that would make brainwashed shabbos goy schiz out at the thought of since their programming can't compute it, however...
He seems a little off himself, like the only reason he's doing it is so that he can be considered a `Good Jew' among the growing number of awakened gentiles who reject the electric jew media and implant the difficulty of `not all jews are bad', while still probably doing plenty of child molesting and swindling himself. Maybe that air of criminality is just an unshakable trait of jewish genes, maybe he's what he's passing himself off as and just looks like he's doing shady shit underneath, but when it comes to a jew, it's guilty until proven innocent. Plus if he isn't yet another jewish sock puppet cleverly presented as a jew, why hasn't the mossad silenced him yet?

Tell me this, how many good gentiles have died in jewish ordered wars (which ww1 and 2 and vietnam all fall under, by the way) and on the street after being robbed by the jewish run economy?

Judaism is built about a pretense of equality in a sense isn't it? The belief in a `Grand Broker', so what would be wrong with the infantesimal number of `Good Jews' getting swept away with the rest of their multitudes of swindling counterparts? Anything else would be unfair and inequal and thus sacrilege. And anyways it'll happen either way once the civilization collapses. Jewry may be able to run amok in the pretentious `civilized' world, but strip away all that and they'll be first on the pillaging block among any constituency.

>>21
Why would Alex Jones do anything else? Alex Jones mainly targets the rich and powerful, so naturally he would not hate on every single jew.

I remember Norman Finklestein from this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw7FJ9y8m4M

He is an enormous jew and he is pointing out that it is hypocritical to use the holocaust as an excuse for israelis to brutalize palestinians. What's wrong with that?

How can all jews be part of the same hive mind working towards the same goals? Not sure if it is a giant conspiracy to create in people's minds a "good jew", or specific jew genes and/or jewish culture that cause this criminal behavior, Jones, Finkel and Nathanael would be shooting themselves in the foot if this were true.

how many good gentiles have died in jewish ordered wars
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4464869?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101736337107

According to this there were supposedly 1.5 million non-aryan jews and 300000 jews in Germany at the onset of the war and probably more in Austria and the Sudetenland, so of around 900000 males, 150000 fought for Germany in ww2, 15/90 = 16.7%.

http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/germany.htm

The german aryan population in 1939 was 70 million, or 87.1 million including territories annexed during anschluss. The size of the german armed forces was 20 million, 20/35 = 57.1%.

You're right, that is a large discrepancy. Still, there is no need to be beastly towards the 150000 jews who fought for their reichsführer and their country, it is the remaining jews we need to look into.

He is an enormous jew and he is pointing out that it is hypocritical to use the holocaust as an excuse for israelis to brutalize palestinians. What's wrong with that?
I never said there was anything wrong with it, what I said is he's a much better example of what you were trying to put across, of jews who actually stand up to and expose totalitarianist jewry.
I spoke with him at a younger, more naive time, and asked him about America's culpability in the militarization of jews that enabled them to invade palestine and start it all. He said it didn't matter, and that israel held FULL culpability for it all, no ifs ands or buts. It was pretty confusing at the time because America was the obvious enabler, however now knowing that it was the jewish vices of power in America that enabled it, I have to say he was right.


You're only looking at ww2 and the german numbers, you're excluding the polish, japanese, chinese, french, british, american, russian, italian, and all other nations' casualties, especially civilian. Plus you're neglecting ww1, vietnam, iraq, afghanistan, libya, and now syria. And if jews get their way, soon iran and north korea.

>Still, there is no need to be beastly towards the 150000 jews who fought for their reichsführer and their country, it is the remaining jews we need to look into.
And what's the need for jews to believe in non jews as cattle and commit countless atrocities against them? There's a need for justice for all of those innocents who have been robbed raped tortured and killed for no reason other than "they're goyim" which is not a reason to begin with.

On top of that as I've said, the need rests in securing the future of humanity as a whole, because with jews humanity very obviously loses, as history and current events show.

And anyway if you really cared about saving jews then you should know that the only way to is to get them out of power, otherwise the civilization WILL collapse and with it goes every level of means to protect them.

Hey guys, how about we judge individuals by their actions and use reason and logic to determine reality? Yeeeeaeah!

>>24
Yeah like the way you kikes judge people purely by whether or not they are jewish by halakal? And then rob rape enslave extort and murder non-jews and it's A-OK because they're "human cattle"?
Don't worry hymie, you are being judged by your actions, using real reason and logic and not your fucking hollywood electric jew spinstrel bizarro bullshit, just as you had been in the past, although they didn't have the foresight to exterminate you like the parasites you are. However this time we know better, and whether by the hand of order or by the absolution of chaos, humanity will be cleansed of its number one detractor, you.

>>25
Arguing against the use of reason and logic. Fuck yeeeeaaah!

John, I'm not going to shoot you between the eyes. I'm going to shoot you between the balls.

>>26
You're the only one doing that.

>>17
Jews will force you to do circumcision, so you wont be able to masturbate and have to pay for whores.

>>28
So by saying that we should use reason and logic, I'm also at the same time somehow arguing against its use?

>>30
I think he is commenting on the duality of man, the schism between desire and the means of achieving those desires.

If you desire to help someone, making friends and asking them if they need help with anything would be the logical thing to do.

If you desire to hurt someone, stomping their nuts would be the logical thing to do.

Look at the striking differences.


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>>30
I'm saying you're a hypocritical jewish shill, you will be judged for your crimes.

>>33
Which part of my statement makes me a Jewish shill exactly? All I've said so far is that people should be judged by their individual actions and that we should use reason and logic.

>>34
All of it.

>>35
So you reject reason and logic completely? Really?

>>36
Not at all, just the jewish version that you are trying to paint as "reason" and "logic".

>>37
At what point did I paint a Jewish version of anything? I simply made a general statement inviting everyone to use logic and reason. Then you shit the bed.

>>38
Shalom!

>>39
Oh we're back to this again? No, come on. Answer the question.