Raising the Debt Ceiling

Tea partiers, What the fuck is wrong with you? You're about to cause the US treasury to default on its loans. Isn't that exactly the kind of shit a fiscal conservative would want to prevent?

LOLNO

Fiscal conservatives have changed into ancap radicals.  They want to see the US government fail so they can build it up in their image.  This is a process started 40 years ago, they call it starving the beast.  First they lower taxes, then find some reason they have to spend money like national security or social security.  They ramp up spending in that area slowly while also eroding taxes and pumping out right wing rhetoric for decades.  Now they think they have made enough influence to get most Americans on board to change this country forever and for their own betterment.

>>3
Fiscal conservatives have changed into ancap radicals.
Not really, ancap radicals are a minority, they just yap a lot on the internet.

>>4
If radicals are really a minority then why are republicans in congress being such shits about this? Why aren't they willing to compromise?

>>4

Minority?  They make up the majority of house republicans.  Have you read any of Paul Ryans budget plan?  It a delusional libertarian fantasy.  Also crashing the government to make sure that they don't raise taxes?  That's radical no matter how you slice it.

You only default if you can't meet interest payments. The US is not going to default.

>>7

It'll cause a government shut down to divert the funds necessary to pay off interest.

>>7
Source please. Or do you just live under a rock?

I'm part of the tea party.
I support the raising of the debt limit if,

Republicans cut 500 billion out of their pet projects,as well as the democrats do the same.

Balanced amendment gets passed,and term limits well.

>>10

How about we cut 500 billion out of our military spending, end the wars and come home and use those billions building energy infrastructure to get us off of foreign oil so that no more Americans have to die in the Middle East and we can mind our own business so that everyone leaves us alone; serving our national security.

How about we stop the drug war and save billions per year there? How about we stop the prison-industrial complex and save billions there? How about we stop giving subsidies to oil companies and save more billions?

The tea party doesn't give a shit about debt or spending. You niggers are a joke.

>>10
What about letting some of the Bush tax cuts expire? Wouldn't a balanced approach to defecit reduction include spending cuts and tax increases?

You can't have a balanced budget.  In an ideal situation, you would have a surplus in the good years and a deficit in the bad years.  Unfortunately you have a huge trade deficit, so you need a budget deficit to match so that the private sector can take up the slack.

>>11
I'm sure a Obama faggot can adequately describe other people's political beliefs for them without bias or dishonesty. 

Liberal sheeple....

>>12
No. Balanced is just a word for wanting something. It's like saying the word 'logical' in your argument in order to make it sound better. We have high taxes. The tax increase will hit the wrong people.

The obscenely rich dodge their fair share of taxes with tax shelters and loopholes in the tax code. When liberals say that they want to fuck the rich, they actually mean small and large businesses. This hurts jobs and businesses alike. It's just a con game for liberals who are usually affluent and better off than most of us. They don't like to admit that they are fucking the economy over rather than rich people.

Even with this present deal, the deficit is still growing and most likely will balloon to even greater levels of debt.

>>15
Get real.  You do NOT have anything resembling "high taxes".  Your taxes are about as low as they've been in recent times.  The top rate is 37% - that is the lowest it has been in a century.

>>15
No. Balanced is just a word for wanting something.

Cuts in spending and increasing taxes are both bad for economic growth. Grow the fuck up.

>>16

But a libertarian fervor has swept many rich faggots and they want 0% tax income.

>>18
The cool thing about living in America is that they have freedom.  This includes the freedom to move to Qatar, and renounce their citizenship whilst there.

>>17
So says the 12 year old who didn't make an argument. Low taxes does promote the economy. Cutting spending is a good thing in most cases, especially if your spending is out of control and you have trillions of debt building up because of it.

This is very basic economic theory here. I shouldn't have to explain it to you as if you were an imbecile.

>>19
I'm sure most Democrats will be planning that once they are done bleeding America dry.

>>21
riiiiiiight

>>22
Or, depending on who becomes the next American President, Dems might be put into deat..reeducation camps.

>>20
Ignorance is strong with this one. Cutting spending will hurt the economy. Government spending makes up huge chunk of our GDP. This is very basic economic theory here. I shouldn't have to explain it to you as if you were an imbecile.

>>23
Much more likely.

>>24
Depends on what the government is spending on. If it took out even bigger loans, raised taxes even higher and spent 20 trillion a year paying people to polish rocks on the beach that would increase the GDP by 20 trillion but it would also be a massive bubble ponzi scheme pyramid scheme and scam.

>>15
The US has some of the lowest taxes in the Western world. Plus, most of your so-called "high taxes" are from your state governments, not the Federal. It seems most Americans don't give a flying fuck about state politics, hence the "high taxes" being bitched about constantly and nothing every getting done.

>>20
Pretty much any country that got out of the Great Depression had used spending to get its way out of it. The problem lies not with government per se, but with douchebags in the financial sector fucking things up. It would be nice if China forgoes some of the US' debt. If people grew the fuck up and really cared about the debt, there would be diplomatic talks with China to come up with an agreement on letting go of some of the obligations. But politics like the rest of society is run by small, mental children.

>>26
GDP is a meaningless scale of economics anyway. The US economy is a hollow shell of itself and it barely has a manufacturing base. Is it any wonder why then that shit is fucked up?

>>24
>Cutting spending will hurt the economy. Government spending makes up huge chunk of our GDP.

Spending money you don't have to buy things you can't afford while amassing a debt so large that it is becoming a burden by itself on the economy. I understand that there are up and downs and temporary debts. No one is saying we need to shut down the entire government as you seem to be implying. A private sector job and a government job isn't the same thing. Deficit spending without any limits forever is a bad thing. 14 trillion in debt is not a good thing. 

I'm only saying that you might have to need to control spending to match what your dying economy is rather than treating the deficit like it's a new high score on a video game.

Greece is not a fucking role model. Your mindset doesn't work with your checkbook in RL. It won't work in the long run for a real business. It sure as hell didn't work for the EU and Greece.

Status: not told [ ] Told [x]

>>28
It's 2011 now and our economy is now credit based, unlike during the Great Depression. They hit rock bottom and had no where to go but up. The people of that time worked hard to drag us out of it.

Our present day economy is dying. We produce less every year. We can't compete and lack the will to do so. We only make liberal beta males that want everything but can't lift a paperweight while being stuck to their lazyboys. However, they can still call anyone that disagrees with their retarded ideas a child. Good for them.

>>30
The worst thing that'll probably happen to Greece is that it ends up getting kicked out of the Eurozone. That won't be the end for Greece nor the Eurozone. As another Anonymous poster put it, "The sky is falling is a really shitty literary device".

>>31
You've made a good point until you started bitching about "liberals". Both mainstream parties are right-wing (excepting only a few individuals), Dems are center-right (or right of center depending on the situation) and the GOP is even further to the right. The problem in the US is right-wing government. Not "liberals", not "conservatives", right-wing government. This is a universal facet of politics it seems.

Also, as I previously stated in >>29 , the US economy is a hallow shell of itself, it barely has a manufacturing base, and there's plenty of debt to go around. The fact that things are "credit based" now doesn't fundamentally change that.

>>29
GDP is meaningless
Bubbles eventually burst, so long term GDP is meaningful. The point is to have an efficient economic system where price bubbles burst quickly so they don't grow to astronomical sizes and warp the economy for a few years. The dotcom bubble, Enron and credit crunch were all revealed by the market, not government regulators, it is mathematically impossible to centrally plan the price mechanism, you need independent actors to quantify the utility of various actions from the chaotic and unpredictable natural world.

The irony is that while Keynesians dream of the state playing a wider role in the economy this would only become feasible if the state abandoned inefficient Keynesian economics.


manufacturing base
The US is primarily a service economy, we sell brand names, technology and expertise.

America has huge debts. They will have to be paid off and contained into a manageable amount. The US government will make cuts or it will die a slow death.

The deficit is a cancer. It will be a bloody painful operation to fix it. If you don't remove it, it will ruin all of the major organs and kill the host in time. Ignoring it, praying to it, feeding it, or negotiating with it is pointless. It doesn't care.

It steals resources you need in order to survive. It takes more from you as it grows. You can starve it without starving yourself if you're careful and patient, but it has friends called AIDS.

AIDS wants you to think that the cancer has a right to live, that it is a normal and necessary organ. It tells you the viruses are your friends. It tells you METH is fun. AIDS wants to take over the brain and that the immune system response is racist, greedy and evil. It thinks the cancer will let it take over the brain.

>>33
Bubbles eventually burst, so long term GDP is meaningful.
I meant GDP itself as an arbitrary formula for determining economic health. It's bullshit that practically borders on pseudoscience that makes the American economy look strong on paper, but in reality the economy is nothing more than a hollow shell.
The irony is that while Keynesians dream of the state playing a wider role in the economy this would only become feasible if the state abandoned inefficient Keynesian economics.
This I agree.
The US is primarily a service economy, we sell brand names, technology and expertise.
No kidding. Is it then any wonder why the US economy is in the shitter? You may sell "brand names" and "technology", but it sure isn't manufactured there. "Expertise" is also debatable as university there is very expensive and isn't properly subsidized like it is in other Western countries, not to mention the increasing anti-intellectualism that pervades the culture and the political system (but that's a story for another topic).

>>30
No one is saying we need to shut down the entire government as you seem to be implying.
I didn't imply that at all you lumbering fuckwit. Keep arguing against an imaginary position though. It makes you look real smart in front of strangers on the internet.

>refused to compromise
>refused to back off demands
>come out and take credit for blue-dog democrats saying "enough of this shit" and working out a deal both parties can live with


>Obama

We need reaction images back

>>37
We need reaction images back
No, we don't. Less of that, please.

A key problem with this whole debate is that the majority of people, on all ends of the political spectrum, are unwilling to even CONSIDER raising taxes, and radical republicans in particular use any notion of raising taxes to cry 'Socialism!' and 'Wealth Re-distribution!'.

The answer is really simple.

As our history proves, Super inflation and/or colonization are the only solutions for massive national debts.

Although US may set up the new war, we normally don't have the 2nd option. So it means we will have really bad inflation in the near future, which eliminates all national debt and saving money, and reset everything to zero, just like right after WW2.

Unless everyone wishes to pay double of tax, this is the most realistic solution.