Name: proAbortion !!FenpD4vAu9bpf+Z 2007-07-22 1:35 ID:pTyURb4s
I just saw this quote on a forum, and decided to produce a counter argument against it in notepad. Here it is:
"I voted against abortion, both because it's murder and I think a Woman's ( or Man's ) Right to Choose is a load of crock.
"Nonetheless, it doesn't bother me much, because a lot of worse things happen ( although I have no doubt it is excruciatingly painful for the baby ). I'd be a lot happier with the killers if they cheerfully said 'Yes, it is murder: but it many circumstances we believe murder's the way to go.'"
Assertions:
1. Abortion is murder.
2. A woman should not have the right to abort.
3. A man should not have the right to abort.
4. The unborn child is subjected to excruiciating pain when aborted.
5. Proponents of abortion believe it is murder and that murder is circumstantially acceptable.
6. Those who are for abortion are to be labelled 'killers', whereas those that take the life of any other life form are not.
Required definitions
The definition of 'murder':
1.Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
The definition of 'abortion':
1. Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
2. any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, esp. during the first six months.
My points:
1. Murder is a crime according to the law. If the law accepts that an unborn child is a human being, then abortion is indeed murder. The law does not, thus abortion is not murder. (Additionally, the definition of abortion above does not define it to be murder in any sense of the word.)
2. If the law does not class an unborn child as a human being, what then? By what means are the rights of one living thing decided?
3. Endangered species of animals are granted the right to live. They are important to us somewhat.
4. Dogs, cats, horses and other domesticated creatures are given the right to live, somewhat. For example, to shoot a dog may be described as cruelty to animals. However, a dog without an owner or place to live is commonly to be put down as it serves no other use.
5. To harm another person's pet is against the law, covered by the damaging of another person's property.
6. Vermin, mice, rats, voles, etc. are pests, unimportant. They are allowed to be killed freely by anyone. Additionally, apart from the lack of the right to live, they do not have the right to live in comfort, that is, they may be abused, tortured and subject to experimentation.
7. Insects, at least, those which are not endangered, are even moreso rightless. They are barely considered to be worthy of life, instead some natural phenomena which may be observed, admired, played with, dissected or destroyed. In spite of this, insects are not thoughtless: they have the brains; they have the ability to think; they can feel pain; they can be afraid. Characteristics which we may observe in ourselves, yet we acknowledge and choose to ignore.
8. Foxes are one animal which, previously considered vermin, have recently been given the right to live in some comfort. More precisely, the sport which was to hunt down and kill foxes using dogs has been made illegal because activists have spoken against it for some time based on the premise that foxes are subjected to horrible torture and sometimes pain. It is debated whether or not a fox feels pain when a dog takes its life. The kill is quick and efficient, when done properly. When done improperly, the fox may still live and be subjected to agony. Irrespective of this debate, what is important is that people have given an animal which previously had little to no rights the right to be exempt from the subject of hunting. However, this is not universal. The rights of all other life forms are still as they were. This is one specific species which appealed to the sympathy of people. The rest have not.
9. In law, rights which are given to life forms can be given universally, e.g. endangered species are given rights to live, and infringment of those rights is punishable by the state. The rights of other life forms are not discussed or mentioned, such as insects, and it is at the discrection of the individual to apply whatever rights he deems suitable.
"I voted against abortion, both because it's murder and I think a Woman's ( or Man's ) Right to Choose is a load of crock.
"Nonetheless, it doesn't bother me much, because a lot of worse things happen ( although I have no doubt it is excruciatingly painful for the baby ). I'd be a lot happier with the killers if they cheerfully said 'Yes, it is murder: but it many circumstances we believe murder's the way to go.'"
Assertions:
1. Abortion is murder.
2. A woman should not have the right to abort.
3. A man should not have the right to abort.
4. The unborn child is subjected to excruiciating pain when aborted.
5. Proponents of abortion believe it is murder and that murder is circumstantially acceptable.
6. Those who are for abortion are to be labelled 'killers', whereas those that take the life of any other life form are not.
Required definitions
The definition of 'murder':
1.Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
The definition of 'abortion':
1. Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
2. any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, esp. during the first six months.
My points:
1. Murder is a crime according to the law. If the law accepts that an unborn child is a human being, then abortion is indeed murder. The law does not, thus abortion is not murder. (Additionally, the definition of abortion above does not define it to be murder in any sense of the word.)
2. If the law does not class an unborn child as a human being, what then? By what means are the rights of one living thing decided?
3. Endangered species of animals are granted the right to live. They are important to us somewhat.
4. Dogs, cats, horses and other domesticated creatures are given the right to live, somewhat. For example, to shoot a dog may be described as cruelty to animals. However, a dog without an owner or place to live is commonly to be put down as it serves no other use.
5. To harm another person's pet is against the law, covered by the damaging of another person's property.
6. Vermin, mice, rats, voles, etc. are pests, unimportant. They are allowed to be killed freely by anyone. Additionally, apart from the lack of the right to live, they do not have the right to live in comfort, that is, they may be abused, tortured and subject to experimentation.
7. Insects, at least, those which are not endangered, are even moreso rightless. They are barely considered to be worthy of life, instead some natural phenomena which may be observed, admired, played with, dissected or destroyed. In spite of this, insects are not thoughtless: they have the brains; they have the ability to think; they can feel pain; they can be afraid. Characteristics which we may observe in ourselves, yet we acknowledge and choose to ignore.
8. Foxes are one animal which, previously considered vermin, have recently been given the right to live in some comfort. More precisely, the sport which was to hunt down and kill foxes using dogs has been made illegal because activists have spoken against it for some time based on the premise that foxes are subjected to horrible torture and sometimes pain. It is debated whether or not a fox feels pain when a dog takes its life. The kill is quick and efficient, when done properly. When done improperly, the fox may still live and be subjected to agony. Irrespective of this debate, what is important is that people have given an animal which previously had little to no rights the right to be exempt from the subject of hunting. However, this is not universal. The rights of all other life forms are still as they were. This is one specific species which appealed to the sympathy of people. The rest have not.
9. In law, rights which are given to life forms can be given universally, e.g. endangered species are given rights to live, and infringment of those rights is punishable by the state. The rights of other life forms are not discussed or mentioned, such as insects, and it is at the discrection of the individual to apply whatever rights he deems suitable.