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Corporations in America

Name: Anonymous 2006-12-10 13:44

As I hear this consistent talk about how the private sector is much more capable than government to operate social programs, and how tax cuts are needed to spur the economic growth so that the corporations can be later taxed, I present an interesting source.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/corptax.html

The American income provided for comparison is a family making $30,000 per annum, at a rate of 17% federal income tax.  What is truely interesting is that many large corporations get substantially less federal taxation, and in some cases, are refunded for taxes they never paid.  This is a strange case indeed, as it seems that these "tax cuts to spur economic growth" are rather redundant, as many corporations are paying less than the taxes of impoverished people. 

Libertarian doctrine is obsessive about telling us that government should be weakened, and the spending of the government curtailed to allow the market to grow.  It is rather amusing that the people who benefit most from this plan are not the people who pay the most relative taxes, but the people who pay the lowest percentage of taxes, despite how enormous that 1.8% may be (here's looking at you Microsoft).

It makes me wonder why so many middle class families believe the libertarians want to help them.  The middle class bears the brunt of the highest taxes, and is the true "common men" of America.  When libertarians argue that a graduated tax bracket makes it discouraging to become rich, they need only read the nice steady 1.8% that Microsoft pays to the federal government.  Ah, what a burden it is to be rich.

American corporations are truely the scourge of the market. And they themselves are proof of the "high tide raises all boats" myth expounded by various corporations and economic theorists.  Simply take a look at the GDP of various nations.

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch2en/conc2en/globalgdp.html

As the chart shows, America doesn't generate so huge a GDP as many would like to assume, and that it is about 3 times that of Japan and 5 times that of Germany. Now that you know the scale of global GDP, look at this source. (Click on Facts and Figures)

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/executive.html

What is evidenced by the diagram is that in Japan, a corporation executive makes 11 times that of a factory floor worker, and likely with due cause (i.e. owning/starting the business), in Germany it is a larger 12 times. (Still reasonable)  Now go over to American corporation executives......Hrm. It seems that American CEOs make a staggering 475 times more money than the factory floor worker.  What is being drawn here is that the United States' policy of "rising tide" is not narrowing the income disparity, but widening it, making the rich MUCH richer, and the poor MUCH poorer.

Libertarians will sometime outcry that government facilitates this taxation, and must be weakened to prevent further injustice.  But I ask Libertarians, with the current system, what empirical proof do you have that doing so will rein in the income disparity?  What evidence do you have that doing so will not be what the corporations would prefer?  Herein lies the evidence of pessimistic outlook of Libertarians, would not justice be achieved if politicians were honorable? Would not the corporate sway be stymied if politicians rejected their bribes and lobbying? Would not taxation be truely graduated if loopholes were closed for large corporations? Would not federal programs and funding increase if corporations actually started paying their share? Why, if they actually paid, lower taxes across the board would be actually JUSTIFIED.  But of course, Libertarians will tell you that all politicians are corrupt, excluding themselves, and that the inherent evil nature of man evaporates in the private sector.  Businesses should exist to make money, government should exist to enforce the people's will, and the people's will is the only sovereign power, without it's grace, business would not exist.

Name: Anonymous 2006-12-15 16:11

>>41
You're reasonably level headed. The only difference between you and the guy you're arguing with is a difference in perspective.
You think that we're descending into socialism, I don't think we are.  I agree bureaucracy and spending is out of control, but corporations have bureaucratic bullshit and waste too, it just happens more noticably in government.

Second, the market does not behave in rational ways, after the 9/11 attacks, the economy plunged, why? Because people were fearful of terrorist attack, even though most of the nation was largely not at much risk.  And as it is now, the average American consumer is too fucking stupid for libertarianism to be implemented, good products don't get picked over shitty ones, people get McDonald's bile still.
 
Enron, Delta and many more screwed its employees/shareholders out of their livelihoods, and I don't see how we can trust the market to keep fair bookkeeping if government isn't looming over them.  That's kind of why the SEC was formed, because prior to the great depression, there was no government regulation of stock value, which led investors to thinking they had bought some cash cow stock when they'd actually bought a lemon.  So, in your government you had better have the government regulation of the stock market, imo.

The problem I see with smaller government is it means little to the rich and powerful, they stand little chance of losing their power and unfair priviledges because even in a small government, they just get less benefit from lobbing and the bribing of officials than before.  In a libertarian system, can you honestly tell me that Microsoft would fall from its mountain?  Would the price of crude oil really drop? Or would it remain entirely controlled by a coalition of oil producing countries, one that the US is not part of? 

Market-Government handjobbery doesn't stop at the border of the US, in order for libertarianism to work optimally, the entire damn world would have to be libertarian, which, frankly, is not likely to happen.

And probably the biggest issue I have, if libertarianism were implemented in the 1930s, who would have stopped Hitler? How would we have beaten the Japanese? A weak American government? A coalition of business owners in America?
The cost of running a war exceeds the revenue a small government would make, hell, the war we run now is hardly being paid, and we have "big government".  Businesses have a vested interest in not fighting wars, especially if the government isn't going to be able to buy tanks, guns, planes, ships they make to fight it.   

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