>>242
"I think you are putting a little too much emphasis on the deterministic side of things. Of course a child's childhood and upbringing has something to do with whether or not he will become successful or not later in life, but the point is is that some individuals can overcome this, and I would say that a significant enough number do overcome this to such a point that I would have little moral/ethical objection to dishing out the responsibility for one's actions."
This is fundamentally where your argument has the most flaws; from my perspective and considering my own personal upbringing..."Some" is really more like 5% of the black population. 3% of which were the lucky few born into an environment that is conduit for "success".
You claim that others put too much emphasis on environmental determinism, meanwhile, you seem to put zero emphasis on it and that's pretty much unforgivable. It lumps you in with either the racists or the truly ignorant people who just "don't get it." You can either be racist or completely out of touch with the reality of racial disparity in America. Pick one.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone can look at the recent stats concerning racial disparity, then cross reference it with what's been going on in mainstream culture and society and claim that
"a significant enough number do overcome this to such a point that I would have little moral/ethical objection to dishing out the responsibility for one's actions."
That's completely rediculous. Maybe if you're white (though with the gap between the white middle class and the rich middle class widing, I really fucking doubt it)...but sorry, not if you're black.
>>243
He told me one story and left me a wiki-link for a trial that is barely relevant to my argument. You idiots have spent the last 100 posts bungling my message because you have a difficult time understanding or responding to it. It's call cognitive dissonance and you are guilty as charged. Here's a primer.
1. There's nothing wrong with Affirmative Action when you don't live in a 100% meritocratic state free of any type of discrimination or corruption. You don't get ahead in America by playing by the rules. Turner, Microsoft, Enron, Hollywood and our political system have proven this 1,000 times over. You're never going to be able to convince me, a 25 year old black man, that Hard Work is the cure for everything. I'm sorry, but I've simply experienced FAR too much to the contrary.
2. There's nothing wrong with Affirmative Action if a meritable black candidate is chosen over a white one. But, what is to be done about all the white unmeritables that have been chosen over black candidates? "Civil Rights Enforcement" is not an acceptable answer because "Civil Rights Enforcement" has been going on for the last 40 years and since then the racial disparity has GROWN.
3. What I call for is an end to white privilege that is prevalent in our culture and disproportionate to our population. Any person who says it doesn't exist needs to gain some fucking perspective; and are
a part of the problem.
4. If AA can be tweaked so that a poor black meritable candidate can be chosen over a middle class white meritable canidate, then we do what offers the most help from a pure moral and ethical perspective. We should be a society that offers helps based on need (not want) and evens the playing field at any cost even if that means discriminating against "America's favorite most hardworking (LOLZ!) race."