Abortion and Women's Rights

Abortion has nothing to do with women's rights.  Murder is not a right. 

>>639
Again, if that is all feminism is, you can call me a feminist.  Unfortunately, the dictionary says otherwise.  Due to that, I say I am for equal rights regardless of sex.  What is wrong with this?

"I think the following are reasonable, based on my readings and analysis of the thread:

Child Support Laws are fine, both parties are responsible for, and have rights to the child.

Abortion should be legal up until the point at which the human fetus could be considered a 'human life', i.e. has attained consciousness and or feeling/senses.  After this point, no abortions should be allowed at all unless continuing development of the fetus and birth is deemed a -serious- threat to the mother's life by medical professionals or other able, credible, and knowledgeable people.  In this instance, the abortion would only be allowed if done humanely.

No abortion should be allowed without the consent of the man, due to the fact that the unborn baby is indeed partly his, as well as is partly his responsibility.

Contraceptives should be totally legal, unrestricted, and deregulated.

Pharmacists should be allowed to sell or not to sell their services if they please.

Responsible and able male parents should not be denied their children so regularly in custody battles, as the child is, again, a mutual right and responsibility of both parents."

Reposted for the sake of clarity.

>>641 Is there something wrong with it? I sure didn't say there was.

>>643
My bad.  Xel, Kumori, and other feminazis seem to have an issue with it though, which likely lead me to a wrong assumption of you based on the fact that you identify yourself as a feminist.. I apologize.

>>642 "No abortion should be allowed without the consent of the man, due to the fact that the unborn baby is indeed partly his, as well as is partly his responsibility." - The woman gave more to the unborn than what the man did. The man only gave one half of the blueprint (chromosomes), and that's it, nothing more. The mother gives way more than the father. The woman gave the other half of the blueprint, cytoplasm, mitachondria, and other cell structures. The mother gave all building blocks. Also, the unborn is inside the woman's body, not the man's. The woman is also the one that has to go through labor, delivery, possible complications, and possible PPD. So out of all this, I'd say the man only has 15% custody of said unborn and the mother's word overrides his'.

>>644 I never saw Xel and Kumori have an issue with it. They seemed like a-okay people to me expressing their views and having vertabrae to them.

"So out of all this, I'd say the man only has 15% custody of said unborn and the mother's word overrides his'."

Yet you expect him to pay 50% child support? If he has to pay 50% child support, and take *responsibility* for 50% of the child, he gets 50% of *rights* to the child, and not a percentage point less.  Both parents create the child, not just one. 

>>646
They did.

Or at least Xel for sure.

>>645 Seconded.

Hmm. Xel was here before Kumori.

>>645
"The woman gave more to the unborn than what the man did."

If both parties are responsible for the child, both parties have rights to the child, and equal amounts of both.  Mutual responsibility, mutual rights.  No less. 

Both parents are necessary to create the child, and both parents have rights to the creation.  Mutual responsibility.  With responsibilities should come rights.

"Yet you expect him to pay 50% child support? If he has to pay 50% child support, and take *responsibility* for 50% of the child, he gets 50% of *rights* to the child, and not a percentage point less.  Both parents create the child, not just one." - Yeup. All what I said is that the woman contributed more, so her word shall override his'. I never said the man's voice should be void. He may have a voice, but it ultimately comes boiled down to the woman in the end.

>>653
"- Yeup. All what I said is that the woman contributed more, so her word shall override his'. I never said the man's voice should be void. He may have a voice, but it ultimately comes boiled down to the woman in the end."

No.  If the responsibility is half his, so are the rights. 

>>642
Entirely reasonable.

This is absolutely ridiculous.  If the man is expected to be just as responsible as the woman, he should have just the same rights. 

>>645

thirded

>>656
Kumori is just sexist in favor of women.  Nothing would be acceptable to her outside of forcing men to pay for the child, yet having no rights to it, claiming mutual responsibility, but not mutual rights, and denying men their children consistently in custody battles.

>>654 "No.  If the responsibility is half his, so are the rights." Good point, he provided half the blueprint. If somehow that part is mutated out so that the baby is a clone of the woman, then that's another ball game. But that is about as probable as objectivism being practically implemented.

>>658 Kumori, he has a point. This time.

>>660
Holy shit Xel, I honestly didn't think you'd stand up and support this.  I apologize for being prejudice about you.  I suppose you really mean what you say when you complain about the lack of equality.  Thanks for standing up for what is right, even when your peers disagree.

Hello, I am a 29 year old married man and would like to state my position when it comes to responsibility and rights to a child. I'll put out points from different perspectives.

I do appreciate having my voice out and opinion when it comes to abortion, but I will respect my wife and let her make the final decision, it is her body that is going to be affected afterall. I would never force my wife to carry a pregnancy to term no matter how much I would have wanted a child, I will not be that selfish and barbaric, never. NEVER EVER.

If I didn't want to be the father of a future child from my wife, then I'd make sure to wear a condom and ask her to use any contraceptive available. If she refuses, however, I'll still accept any consequence that may occur.

If my wife became pregnant and I didn't want the child but she did, I would not force her to have an abortion against her will. I will still accept my half of the responsibility for the child after birth or I will talk to her about adoption. If she doesn't want to go with adoption then that's fine with me, I'll still father the child even though I never wanted it to start out with. Afterall, it is still half of me.

Children are of course both the reponsibility of their parents 50/50. I do understand that however, some men are not good fathers and so the mothers may take full custody of them. The same goes vice versa if the mother isn't well fit, then the father may take full custody. However, if both are able-bodied parents, the mother may have the children if she pleases, since I do believe that mothers put a lot more time and care into raising them than the father, not to mention she was also the one that had to experience change of body and labor, it's hard work. Although, I believe the child has the say to which parent he/she would rather be with.

Thread ends here!

>>662
What if you signed a contract and paid for her to have your child, then she backed out and could not pay?

>>664
THREAD FUCKING ENDS

>>662
"I do appreciate having my voice out and opinion when it comes to abortion, but I will respect my wife and let her make the final decision, it is her body that is going to be affected afterall."

Lovely.  This doesn't mean all men should have no say just because you don't care.  Some men might, you know.

"If I didn't want to be the father of a future child from my wife, then I'd make sure to wear a condom and ask her to use any contraceptive available. If she refuses, however, I'll still accept any consequence that may occur."

Totally reasonable.  If you don't want the kid, and she does, the responsibility is then yours to prevent the pregnancy, since you don't want it.  However, on the flipside, if *she* doesn't want the kid, and you don't care, or do want the kid, it is then *her* responsibility.  This is fair.

"If my wife became pregnant and I didn't want the child but she did, I would not force her to have an abortion against her will."

You can't do that legally... I hope.  Abortions shouldn't be allowed except with mutual consent.  Child support... 50/50.. each parent pays half.  Fair.  Mutual rights, mutual responsibilities. 

"I will still accept my half of the responsibility for the child after birth or I will talk to her about adoption. If she doesn't want to go with adoption then that's fine with me, I'll still father the child even though I never wanted it to start out with. Afterall, it is still half of me."

Reasonable.  Again, 50/50 responsibility and rights.

"Children are of course both the reponsibility of their parents 50/50. I do understand that however, some men are not good fathers and so the mothers may take full custody of them. The same goes vice versa if the mother isn't well fit, then the father may take full custody."

Of course.  Note, when I drew up my list of points to make for the thread in >>642, I made sure to use the words 'responsible' and 'able'.  I agree here.

"However, if both are able-bodied parents, the mother may have the children if she pleases, since I do believe that mothers put a lot more time and care into raising them than the father, not to mention she was also the one that had to experience change of body and labor, it's hard work. Although, I believe the child has the say to which parent he/she would rather be with."

The father should at least get to see the kid half the time, assuming he is provably and evidently an able & responsible parent, and overall good person.  That's fair.  50/50 rights, 50/50 responsibility.

>>662
What the fucking hell?! That has nothing to do with what I just said. Marriage is a relationship built on love for one another, not contracts. I would never stoop as low as to fucking bribe my wife through a contract and money to have a kid. No way in hell.

>>666
Lovely.  This doesn't mean all men should have no say just because you don't care.  Some men might, you know.

I never said I didn't care. I'm just saying that any guy like me may have a voice, but not no voice at all. My wife and any woman should be allowed to make the final decision.

>>668
No they shouldn't, the rights to the being should be half and half if the responsibilities are as well.  Mutual responsibilities, mutual rights.  No abortion without the consent of both partners. 

>>668
If the woman has all the say, the man has no voice at all.  This is plain not fair.  If he has to help pay for and support it, he has equal rights to it as well.  No abortion without mutual consent.

>>658 Is right on this one.  Now we see the reverse sexism.  Men are being handed responsibility and no rights.  Pure bullshit. 

>>668

I don't think you are grasping with what I'm trying to say here. I'm merely saying that both the mother and father have equal say, equal consent, and equal voice. But I'm letting my wife have the final say, and other women should as well. Got it now?

>>672

You guys are assuming all this bullshit about Kumori and tricking others into believing it. He didn't say he was in favor of women, in fact, he said he favored rights for both sexes. He never said anything in specific detail about forcing men to pay for a child and having no rights to it. All he did was say whom contributed more to the pregnancy by physical means, and he is right about it. He never said anything about consent. He also didn't say anything about custody battles. Please end the baseless assumptions. Whenever you say someone is sexist and whatnot, others are going to automatically believe it.

>>673

"He also didn't say anything about custody battles." (poster 673)

Is that so? I quote, from his post:

"However, if both are able-bodied parents, the mother may have the children if she pleases, since I do believe that mothers put a lot more time and care into raising them than the father, not to mention she was also the one that had to experience change of body and labor, it's hard work."  -Excerpt from the married guy's post

Again, assuming he is just talking about things on an individual basis, I could care less.  But assuming this is his opinion on actual policy for the state or nation that will affect all fathers? I have an issue with that.

who cares?

bump

dude let this thread die it's been long over

>>642 and >>658 are right on this one. 

The state should take unwanted babies, pay the mothers for them, and use them as soldiers.

>>662 Hur hur you're a woman hur hur football hur hur.