Libertarians often say they aren't anarchists, they just believe in really small government. However in order to join the Libertarian Party you must certify that you are against the initiation of force. Anarchy is described as the lack of a hierarchal authority, no one has any power over anyone else (ideally). Taken to its logical conclusion, a libertarian government obviously could not do anything without absolute consent of each and every individual. It could not even levy any taxes, because taxes by their very definition are an initiation of force. If people give willingly it's called donations. Government itself is all about force and control. It makes people do things that might not be good for them, but good for the group as a whole which libertarians find abhorrent. How can a party that requires such a pledge morally participate in governmental elections unless their only platform was to immediately dissolve the government once elected? Which ironically would require a significant power grab for them to even do so. Why can't libertarians just fess up and admit they're anarchists?
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Anonymous2006-07-20 1:32
Because the one opinion a democratic republic does not allow to be fully expressed is anarchy =P
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Anonymous2006-07-20 2:07
>>1
More like institutionalised, democratised anarchy. Real anarchy does not rule out use of force. So I suppose the difference is Libertarians believe in idealised anarchy while true anarchists just don't care.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 2:18
Plus: Anarchy has been turned into a slur. Anyone using that word to describe the Libertarian party is trying very desperately to slander the party. We don't just outright call conservatism- facism and we don't outright call liberals- nazis.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 5:15
>>3 >>4
I wasn't trying to slander libertarians, in fact I consider myself strongly libertarian though I'm not a member of the party. I simply think it's an apt description. I understand wanting to separate themselves from the punk rock kid that draws anarchy symbols on his desk during class, but that doesn't change that truly following the philosophical principle's end result is anarchy.
Libertarians believe that the government exists purely to preserve liberty by enforcing justice and should not do anything beyond enforcing justice.
Anarchists believe that somehow magically everyone will get along and no one will ever cheat lie or steal so there is no need for a justice system at all. Anarchy is a type of marxism.
You were a winnar until you described Anarchy as a type of marxism.
Now you're an hero.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 7:54
>>9
It is a type of marxism... Marxism split into communism and anarchy in the 1880s, it's a type of marxism as much as communism is a type of marxism.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 8:05
>>10
Anarchy isn't type of Marxism, that's just anarcho-syndicalism and anarcho-communism. Most Anarchists today are anarcho-invidualists and their beliefs vary from person to person greatly and only thing they collectively share is hate of goverment. Also anarcho-capitalism has been popular these days. Libertarians by no means are Anarchists they're very close to true classical liberals.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 11:58
The government exists purely to preserve liberty by enforcing justice and should not do anything beyond enforcing justice.
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Anonymous2006-07-20 12:23
>>12
Enforcing justice should be also limited to only crimes that endanger another one's liberties.
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Anonymous2006-07-21 6:48
"Libertarians believe that the government exists purely to preserve liberty by enforcing justice and should not do anything beyond enforcing justice."
Solution to the original problem presented by poster.
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kid6062006-07-21 12:23
"The government exists purely to preserve liberty by enforcing justice and should not do anything beyond enforcing justice." - whos version of justice.
>>22
Prevent people from harming each other in the best way you can and do what you want within those constraints.
However it is very likely that your version of liberty is a twisted version of selfishness in which your own liberty is paramount at the expense of others and is flowerred up as much as possible to make it sound as if it is not.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 5:16
eliminatiuon of funds and a complete shutting down from the rest of the stupid world would be the only way for any concept like this to exist. each person would be supplied with what they needed to survive, and if anyone talked shit or raised hell, they would have to die.
fuck em.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 6:26
>>25
What if a large group of people raised hell and you cannot kill them? What if people decided not to bother killing them out of fear of being killed themselves?
Anarchy turns into tyranny, just as communism turns into tyranny. Karl Marx was an idiot.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 7:23
The word "anarchy", as most anarchists use it, does not imply chaos, nihilism, or anomie, but rather an anti-authoritarian society that is based on voluntary association of free individuals in autonomous communities operating on principles of voluntary exchange, mutual aid and self-governance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
SO Mr. >>26 care to explain your point again?
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Anonymous2006-07-22 7:53
>>27
Unfortunately, anarchy can't prevent other people from forming authoritarian societies which will eventually crush the autonomous communities.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 11:21
>>27
That is anarcho-communism(although most anarcho-communist prefer not to use that word, because they hate communism). Sorry, but it isn't so simple. Anarchy as word is derived from Greek and it means ungoverned. Anarcho-syndicalist are basically marxist anarchist and they do have "goverment", anarcho communist are exactly what you're refering to, then there are anarcho-invidualists whose opnions vary from person to person and anarcho-capitalist who mix anarchy and capitalism.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 15:45
>>27
Haha wtf? How in flying fuck will anarchy get people to do this?
I know that my autonomous community will be badass and take over your autonomous community.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 21:17
>>32
My authoritarian nazi state will rape your women, take your goods and wipe you out.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 21:21
>>33
But my ultra libertarian ultra capitalistic dictatorship steals your nazi soldiers by offering them porn and other nice stuff.
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Anonymous2006-07-22 23:55
>>34
They know they'll get more porn and other nice stuff after killing you.
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Anonymous2006-07-23 2:59
Libertarianism isn't anarchy. Libertarians don't believe in no-government, they believe in 'less' government. It would be far more accurate to simply say they favor less government. This does not mean no government, it does not mean no laws, no military, etc. Libertarians support the military, the courts, the police force, and other more or less essential parts of the government. They just want to get rid of a lot of arguably unnecessary parts of government, such as welfare for example.
Libertarians think, generally, that unless an activity you are doing causes direct harm to another individual, you should be free to do it (such as owning a gun, looking at porn, or smoking pot, which, believe it or not, some people would like to restrict or make outright illegal...) To a libertarian, government should be there to safeguard freedom, and it should only exist to the extent necessary to safeguard the rest of your freedoms from violation by others (such as foreign governments, or criminals.) Thus, they advocate a police force, military, etc.
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Anonymous2006-07-24 4:06
Can we just leave it at the fact that Anarchism is the shittiest political system ever?
Anyways. Many anarchists think that Anarcho-Capitalism is a crock of Ayn Rand bullshit and doesnt say anything about true anarchism.
School might have not taught you this, but guess what. many parts of spain during the spanish revolution were under anarcho syndacalism, so it's happened before. Franco just fucked it up for them.
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Anonymous2006-07-24 4:49
>>38
Exactly, they couldn't defend themselves against a highly organized enemy. That's why anarchy is a fucking gigantic failure.
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Anonymous2006-07-24 4:57
Yeah, I know. that's why libertarianism the win at internets and life.