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Abortion

Name: Anonymous 2005-03-08 16:59

Let`s start an internet flamewar. Because I doubt there are any pro-life
people on this website, I ask you the following:

How can a woman want to eventually become pregnant and carry the fetus to
term yet when she gets pregnant now have an abortion and not see the
contradiction? How is one fetus deserving of life and the other not? It seems
to me a real feminist wouldn't want her body being "used" by a fetus ever and
wouldn't want to become pregnant.

If these pro-choice women want to become pregnant now they should get their
tubes tied AND use hormonal birth control, a barrier method w/ spermacide, and a condom everytime they have sex. If they ever want to become a parent they should adopt.

Name: SomeDude 2005-03-29 21:07

>>39 and >> 40
In that case why not have suicide booths a la Futurama?

Name: Anonymous 2005-03-30 16:02

How can they charge someone who kills a fetus while attacking a pregnant woman with homicide and yet allow a doctor to do the exact same thing and not get charged?

I think the pro-choice argument is that a fetus is the property of the mother. If you think the above attacker should be charged with homicide you can't be pro-choice. I think the best and most legal thing you could charge such an attacker with is destroying property in addition to injuring the mother. I'm sick of people having it both ways. Its a person when you want it and not when you don't. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.

Name: SomeDude 2005-03-30 20:14

>>42
Eh. In the end, it has to deal with the court. You can convict him  of vehicular manslaughter if you can convince the jury this (even with no car). I wouldn't call that homocide but if you add the lawyer mumbo jumbo, you can incarcerate him as if it were (i.e. "future emotional issues" or something). You have to keep in mind that the government right now is mixed in both sides. There really is no "winner" as of yet so expect a lot of hipocritism on both sides. All issues haven't been addressed.
Just another half a cent.

Name: Anonymous 2005-03-31 23:37

You guys seem to be missing somthing.  The purpose of sex is to procreate.  It's not there to just run out and do.  Yes, it is quite a good thing that can be lots of fun, but, in the end, its underlying purpose is to create another person.  If you dont want a baby, keep your legs shut.  Its that simple. 

As for your arguments as to its a cancer and such, every fetus has a distinct genetic code that is not that of the mothers.  If it were hers, if it was just part of her body, it would be genetically identical.  But its not.  It is true that it also has its own branwaves and heartbeats.  It is a separate living entity, even though it cannot take care of itself.

>>29
Having an abortion is not taking responsibility for the problem. If they have sex, they signify their want for a child. That is sexs purpose. It's not for people to "show thier love for eachother".  Thats how STD's get around.  Its easy to say I love you lets screw, then later so, well, not really.  Then you could get a pregnancy that is unwanted and an STD. Killing the fetus becasue you screwed up is not taking responsibility, its trying to get out of it.

Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 8:14

>>44

Logical fallacy. Just because sex is our only natural means of reproduction it does not follow that reproduction is its ONLY purpose.

Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 9:18

pregnency is a natural side-effect of sex, if you arnt prepared to raise a child DONT HAVE SEX! why is it called the reproductive organ? hmm, i wonder. im 17, as much as i would like to have children in the future, i know im not ready for them now, so i dont have sex.

Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 9:44

Or learn how to use a condom. That works too.

Name: Anonymous 2005-04-01 9:46

>>44 It's not there to just run out and do. 

Like hell it isn't.  Sex has no meaning other than what we give it.  It's the mechanism used to procreate, but just because procreation is inextoribly linked to sex does not mean sex is inextoribly linked to procreation. 

It's silly to say that having sex means wanting a child.  People have sex ALL THE TIME without wanting a child.  In fact, half of all children are the result of an unwanted pregnancy.  Sex is just a biological function.  What we do with it is up to the individual.

OF COURSE it's irresponsible to have sex without protection and get pregnant.  But instead of making the problem worse, deal with it!  Take responsibilty for your fuck-up, and abort the fetus.  Does an abortion primarily serve the (possibly selfish) self-interest of the mother-to-be?  Sure.  Trying to get out of it would be blaming others, trying to make somebody else (in most cases, the State) to properly care for the baby. 

Who does the mother-to-be have a responsibility towards?  First of all, herself.  She needs to provide her own sustinance and well-being.  The father-to-be?  As far as a child goes, yes.  But even so, law and biology have worked out to make it the mother who by far carries the burden of bringing a new child into the world and taking care of it.  In any case, her responsibility to herself comes first.  Society?  Yes, a new life will consume resources from the community.  Could it be worth the investment?  Maybe, but it could also be a huge drain.  Historically, it's by far the latter. 

Anybody else?  The fetus?  No, the fetus is not an individual.  It is a symbiant life wholy dependant on the mother for sustinance and survival.  Until it is born, it is merely an extension of the mother.  The mother has a right to determine how her life, which at that point is the same as the life of the fetus, is to go.  She has to take responsibilty for herself, and if that means killing part of her, that's how it has to be. 

Genetics is just as losy an arguement.  Viruses are not genetically identical.  Event the mitochondria in every single cell in your body is not genetically identical.  And it's by no means "separate."  It is fundamentally unable to be cared for by any other person than the mother. 

In a more perfect world, I'd say every pregnancy should be caried to term.  Since it's a more perfect world, there would be no problem having the rest of society care for an unwanted child.  But in our real, practical world, unwanted pregnancies happen.  Even if there were something fundamantally objectionable to abortion, it's a necessary option that outweighs the negative consequences. 

"Pro-life" as a term is almost a joke.  It's placing a potential being over an existing being.  That's anti-life.

And geez, finally, even if an abortion is a "get out of jail free" card, so what?  It's still the woman's right to use it.  If you think it's morally objectionable, so be it.  Lots of morally objectional things happen, but that's why we have rights.  Even if somebody doesn't like what we're doing, rights protect all of us from eachother's subjective, individual zeals.

Name: Anonymous 2005-04-05 14:17

Yes, women can get pregnant through having sex and then carry and birth a child.  But a woman is a person, a full human being with sentience and independance--which a fetus is not--not just a baby factory.  Sex *is* a pleasurable activity and an expression of affection between people; it's as much psychological as it is physical.  It's about making children, but it's not *only* about that, at least not to everybody.

Kindly remember that not everybody shares the Christian view of sex, nor are they obligated to--religious affiliation is a choice that somebody has to make, and if you're American the Constitution says that the government isn't supposed to force you into the religion that they think you should choose. 

Besides, if you respect humanity so much, why reduce people to nothing but slaves to their biological functions?  The pro-life movement basically says to women--whether consciously and intentionally or not--that they're not important as people but only as a carrier for a baby.  Needless to say, this makes many women uncomfortable and unhappy.

Besides, "if you don't want a baby, don't have sex?"  We're not just talking about a bunch of irresponsible teenagers here.  There are adult women who are responsible enough to know that they can't provide for/don't want a child; some of them are married.  Why is it okay for you to tell them that they're not allowed to have a physical relationship with their committed partner/husband?  Sex is a vital part of a romantic relationship in our society--sexual problems can complicate or ruin a relationship just as much as money or personality problems.

Adoption is a better alternative for the child in the sense that they're alive, but we live in the real world.  Unfortunately, *not* all children are wanted.  And people tend to want a child that's actually blood related to them.  Look how many people who have trouble having children spend a fortune on fertility treatments or surrogate mothers/fathers rather than adopting some poor kid already here that needs a family.  And it's sad to say, but if a mother who doesn't want her baby isn't white, it's more likely her child will go unadopted--white children tend to be far more in demand (at least they used to, and I haven't seen statistics indicating that's changed--if somebody can point me to any reliable ones, I'd be glad).  And what about women who have genetic disorders, illnesses or drug problems that they pass through to their children?  Not as many people want to adopt a child with those sorts of problems, as it's a much more difficult commitment than raising a 'normal' child.  Yeah, there are people who want children and have trouble having them, but that doesn't mean every, or even the majority of, unwanted children will actually be adopted.

And as has been said, most pro-choice people don't advocate abortion as birth control.  Planned Parenthood, for example, provides a lot more than abortions, they provide safe-sex information and resources, and counseling.  All of which has been shown in studies and in multiple countries to prevent spread of disease and unwanted pregnancies/abortions better than abstinence only education.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-16 0:35

>>49
lol @ trying to justify another use for baby factories

Name: ZEUS 2005-12-16 1:39

>>52
YOU! YES YOU! STOP REVIVING OLD THREADS! OR SO HELP ME I'LL RAPE YOU IN THE FORM OF A SWAN!

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-16 1:59

ahh, very old thread, but it was bumped so i just thought i should commend >>51 for a great, well-thought-out post. really hit the nail on the head talking about the difference between a human being and a living incubator.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-16 19:21

Women shouldn't be in charge of their own bodies.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-16 20:32

>>55

truth was told

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-16 21:56

The question is not about women. Women don't come into the real question. The question being, "Is the fetus alive?"

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-22 18:32

>>57
Oh, it's not about women, is it? It's their body, they can do with it what they damn well please. Anyone notice who mainly makes up this anti-abortion crowd? Men. Who the hell are men to tell women what the hell they can do with their bodies?

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-22 19:47

>>58
On the other hand, who are women to tell a fetus what it can do with it's body? Or what about my right to beat you to a pulp with my fists? I can do what I want with my body, right?

I agree with the pro-choice crowd, but that's a pretty stupid argument.

Name: anti-chan 2005-12-22 20:03

>>48

TRUTH WAS TOLD

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-22 23:28

If it can survive outside the womb and it is aborted, it is 1st degree murder! I say we dig up old hospital records and try and get as many feminists on death row as possible.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-23 0:49

Less women, more lolis.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-23 2:01

>>62
KILL ALL WOMEN!
SAVE THE FETUS!
then fuck it raw. >D

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-23 22:47

>>63
No, just put an end to the cancer of puberty in females.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-24 14:05

sterilise all Negroes.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 3:29

You think pregnancy can be planned??

My personal view on abortion is that if the mother doesn't want or didnt plan to have the child and she wants to abort then its ok. Becos its better to have not birth a life at all than to birh a life than will not be cared or wanted. And don't tell me about orphanages/foster parents etc. Those only sometimes work. (note sometimes).

Now when we talk about abortion we are talking about abortion within that certain time period (i forgot what it was). But after X period the abortion cant go ahead. So main debate wubd how much self-awareness does the fetus have at X time. Some say the moment sperm meets egg. Some say when the brain is developed and so on.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 4:58

>>66 is a girl. A stupid one at that.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 5:50

birh a life than will not be cared or wanted.

Life want to live, even if nobody else wants it to.

Name: anti-chan 2005-12-26 10:34

>>68

and how the fuck do you know? are you a gypsy? are you one of the X-MEN? oh wait, God told you this as he gently raped the virgin mary in a dream you THOUGHT you had, right?

how about this:

NO.

Name: Watanabe 2005-12-26 12:09

Japanese should have larger families whilst Africans need to be castrated.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 18:00

>>70
Agreement and willingness to cooperate

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 18:02

>>69
I dunno, mate. I've never met a person who wanted to die.

Even people who commit suicide usually don't want to. Witness the majority of failed attempts.

If women want to abort, that's fine (I'm pro choice you fag), but it's still killing life.

Name: anti-chan 2005-12-26 19:50

>>72
so what? whoooooo cares? There's literally billions of LIVING children who wereborn into DEATH and no one really seems to give a shit. so who cares about some slut's dago-wap fuck-baby who was ill-concieved via the "pull out" method?

Just because someone fails at suicide doesn't mean they didn't FULLY intend to kill themselves. That's just chock full of stupid.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 20:04

>>73
So you are saying baby's which are killed that could survive outside the womb are less important than those that die daily due to Fidel Castro's oppresive policies towards his people?

We must invade Cuba then!

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-26 22:06

no one really seems to give a shit.

We don't care about some people, so let's not give a shit about anyone. I like the inductive logic.

Just because someone fails at suicide doesn't mean they didn't FULLY intend to kill themselves.

People who really want to be dead go for the kill, not some half-assed measure that might not work.

Name: anti-chan 2005-12-27 1:15

>>74
>>75

How is the logic flawed? If you are judgemental enough to make an everyday decision about who lives and dies inside of a grown woman's cunt, then why doesn't that same mentality extend to outside of the womb?

I don't understand your approach, sir. You'd gladly bring a child into this world, without assuming any casual social responsiblitiy for it. You'd gladly bring a child into this world, without personally insuring that this is a *safe* world for it to live in.

Morality isn't a fucking Burger King and you are not in the Burger King kid's club. You are not Jaws. You are not Wheels and you can't just "have it your way" all of the time.

Ethics isn't a bag of chex mix, you can't just pick over it- eat up all the got damn cereal bits and leave the rest of us pretzels.

As for the suicide thing- you have no way of knowing what was certainly going on in any one person's mind during suicde. Stop with the hypotheticals.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-27 3:43

If you are judgemental enough to make an everyday decision

I don't make the decision, you fool. Furthermore, in case you missed it (twice), I'm **pro-choice**.

There, did you get it this time? What the fuck is wrong with you and your eyes? You show this selective attention in every thread you've fagged up. Can you read?

any one person's mind during suicde.

Sure we do. The many survivors, and the myriad suicide notes left behind by the successful.

BTW, good job on not inserting gay innuendo in there for once. Amazing.

Name: anti-chan 2005-12-27 16:29

I wish I were aborted.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-27 16:48

I'm a super-conservative pro-lifer. By my standards every guy who jerks off and cums is committing genocide since sperm are living organisms in the same sense a fetus is a living organism. For that reason, I hereby declare everyone on 4chan guilty of super genocide.

Name: Anonymous 2005-12-27 21:08

>>79

I'm a socialist. By my standards those poor souls need to have welfare, welfare and more welfare. From the tissue paper to the grave.

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