English Thread

In this thread, we attempt to learn to read, write, and speak English, a language which would be very useful to know. It is widely spoken throughout the world.

Do you speak English? Are you fluent? What resources did you use to learn? Can you give some examples in this thread? Posts some useful links.

Let's help each other out and learn a new language.

I never got a difference between "effective" and "efficient". Can anyone explain, what would be more suitable to use:
"cost-effective investment (endeavor, etc)"
or
"cost-efficient investment (endeavor, etc)"

>>201
"Efficiency" is more like getting the most out of the least effort/investment and with as little wasted time/money/effort as possible. "Effectiveness" is more like how much of an effect you can expect out of your effort/investment.

Why should I say "I have a sister" even if I have only one sister? There is no other sisters of mine.

>>203
But there are many sisters in the world. The initial frame of reference is everything, and there can be any numbers of sisters in the world. You are specifying just one.

This is no different from saying "there is an alligator in the backyard" or "I have a car that I got from my grandmother".

>>201
Cost effective is the saying.
Just to add to what >>202 said,
Effective simply means the ability to do something. Effective does not imply anything about how money, time, our any other resource is used. This is where efficient confess in. Efficient is when something is done while using resources to the best of their abilities, no waste or as little waste as possible. Usually when something is termed efficient they are implying that it is effective also, but tools/processes can be efficient but not effective. For example, a person may be very efficient at washing windows and they can wash all of the windows on a building the best and the fastest, but if their job is doing taxes, they are not very effective.

>>203
I don't understand your question. If someone asks you if you have any siblings, and you have a sister, you would reply: "yes, I have a sister"

>>205
>confess in
Typo, comes in

>>206
"a typo", maybe?

"Some workmen went to *the* church to repair the roof."
It's a sentence from the textbook I'm reading.
Does it mean that there are no other churches that are in need of repair (e.g. in workmen's city)?
Would it be a mistake to say "Some workmen went to *a* church to repair the roof" if there are two or more churches that are in need of repair (e.g. in workmen's city)?

>>207
When speaking or writing as though speaking, it's common to omit articles. "Sorry, typo" is acceptable, for example. You could just as easily say "Sorry, that was a typo", but it's not necessary.

>>208
It sounds like the church has been mentioned before, and there is a specific church.

For example,
"In a town there were many churches. One of the churches had a leaky roof. Some workmen went to the church to repair the roof, but they found it was impossible to repair without materials from the neighboring town 3 miles away."

This is fine. In this case, we cannot change the "a" before "leaky roof" (because we are specifying the roof) and we also cannot change the "the" before "roof" or "church"(because we have already specified the roof and the church and it makes no sense to speak generally).

Now, if you were setting up a story, like so:

"Some workmen went to a church to repair the roof. It had needed repair work for some time, so the pastor was very glad to finally get the work done."

It makes more sense to use "a" before "church" because we are establishing the scene. We cannot use "the" before "church" unless there is only one church we could possibly be talking about. Perhaps the people in this town know there is only one church, in which case this makes sense. Otherwise, it sounds strange.

>>207
Yes that would work. I could have said "sorry, that was a typo, what I meant to say was..." But when writing informally, especially in an internet discussion, we usually write in very shortened shorthand. As long as the post gets the point across, it's fine.

>>208
Read up on the usage of articles in English.
Using "the" would be a refer to a specific church. Either it is the only church in town, or the church had been mentioned before.
Using "a" is nonspecific. We wouldn't know which church they were working on.
Neither is correct or incorrect, they just mean different things.

>>209
It makes more sense to use "a" before "church" because we are establishing the scene. We cannot use "the" before "church" unless there is only one church we could possibly be talking about. Perhaps the people in this town know there is only one church, in which case this makes sense. Otherwise, it sounds strange.
Thank you. BTW, why do you (native English speakers) say "the cinema" even if you don't mean a specific cinema?

>>210
Either it is the only church in town, or the church had been mentioned before.
Yes, but it seems that we can shorten this to "there is only one of something". For example, "I joined a group of warriors. The group of warriors was very brave". The "a" in the first sentence means that there wasn't only one group of warriors. The second sentence (methinks) is just a shortened form of "The group of warriors that I joined was very brave". There is only one "group of warriors that I joined", so we must use "the".
Am I not right?

"In a town there were many churches. One of the churches had a leaky roof. Some workmen went to the church to repair the roof, but they found it was impossible to repair without materials from the neighboring town 3 miles away."
It's also a shortened form of "In a town there were many churches. One of the churches I mentioned before had a leaky roof. Some workmen went to the church I mentioned before to repair the roof I mentioned before, but they found it was impossible to repair without materials from the neighboring town of the town I mentioned before 3 miles away."
There are many towns, so we use "a".
There is only one group of "churches I mentioned before", so we use "the".
There are many leaky roofs in the world, so we use "a".
There is only one "church I mentioned before", so we use "the".
There is only one "roof I mentioned before", so we use "the".
There is only one "neighboring town of the town I mentioned before", so we use "the".

just wondering the word theater and theatre
I don't know what the different in using with that words.

>>211
>>212
It is a reference to a specific cinema though, it is the one we went to to watch the film.

You don't really understand the use of the definite article. When you say "there is only one of something" what this means is that there is only one noun, in this case only one group of warriors. Really there are more than one though, so you used the qualifier "that I joined," this takes you from one of the many groups to your group. You are specifying which group was very brave: the group you joined. In the first version of the story you don't say "that I joined" but since you used "the," we know you are taking about a specific group, the only group you had talked about to that point was the one you joined, so we can infer you are implying that is the group that is brave.

"Is John Somebody in one of the groups of warriors you know?"--here I am asking out of all of the groups you know, is this one guy in any of them. I am not taking about one thing, but a specific set of things.
I know of a group of warriors--I know of a random group of warriors, and I don't know if this is the same group that you know of or not, and it doesn't matter.
I know of the group of warriors--we are taking about a specific group now. Maybe it is one you were taking about, "do you know about the brave warriors from /lang/?"

An explanation of the church story:
Let's talk about town X. In town X there is more than one church. One (only one) of the churches in town X has a leaky roof. Some workmen from town X decide to fix the roof of the leaky church. These workmen find that they do not have the correct materials in town X to fix the church's leaky roof. So the workmen from town X travel to town Y which is three miles away from town X to get the materials they need to fix the roof of the church in town X.
Fixing of your three comments at the end:
We are taking about a random town that we just found out about so we use "a"
We are taking about the specific church that has a lealy roof so we use "the"
We are taking about the specific town the workmen went to to get materials so we use "the"

I hope this clarified things
>>213
Theater and theatre are the same thing. Just like liter and litre. They are just spelling differences between regions. Like color and colour, realize and realise etc. They mean the same thing and everyone still understands what you are taking about.

>>212
>There are many towns, so we use "a".
we use a because we are just introducing this town.
>There is only one group of "churches I mentioned before", so we use "the".
We use the because we are referencing churches in the town.
>There are many leaky roofs in the world, so we use "a".
Yes, anything can have a leaky roof
>There is only one "church I mentioned before", so we use "the".
We use the because we are taking about the specific church you mentioned before.
>There is only one "roof I mentioned before", so we use "the".
We use the because we are talking about the specific leaky roof we are trying to fix so we use the.
>There is only one "neighboring town of the town I mentioned before", so we use "the".
We use the because we are taking about the specific town the workers went to.
The point is, there may be more than one of something, but we are taking about a specific one of those things.

>>213
theatre - BrE
theater - NAmE

Ok. Two cases.
1) I'm in a room and talking to a friend on the phone. The friend don't know that there's only one chair in the room. I want to start a conversation saying "I'm going to sit on (a/the) chair". What article should I use?
2) I'm in a room with my friend and he sees and knows that there's only one chair in the room. I want to start a conversation saying "I'm going to sit on (a/the) chair". What article should I use?

The friend don't know
doesn't

>>214
It is a reference to a specific cinema though, it is the one we went to to watch the film.
I asked because http://i.imgur.com/V7jxJgu.png
I understand that it's just an exception, but I thought maybe there's explanation.

>>217
What do you think you should use? Here is my opinion:
1) most likely "a chair," you are emphasizing that you are going to sit down rather than emphasizing that you are sitting in a special chair
2) probably "the chair." Here you are emphasizing that you are going to sit in the only chair.

>>219
It is useful to realize and to think about the fact that the definite articles and the indefinite articles mean different things.
I haven't been to a cinema in a while
vs
I haven't been to the cinema in a while
Each of these is grammatically correct, and each are used, but they mean different things. The first implies I haven't been to any cinema anywhere in a long time. The second implies we either use the same cinema, or we are talking about the one nearby. The never refers to something random, I may not be talking  specifically about, say the NCG cinema in Grand Blanc, but I am talking about a certain one.
These sentences aren't as common as someone saying "I haven't gone to see a movie in a while" "I haven't gone to the theater in a while"
We (here, at least) don't really use the word cinema too often, we call them movie theaters are simply theaters. People don't watch too many plays here so there is no confusion as to what they mean.

>>220
They're using the word "cinema" in the meaning of "movies". It's not common in American English but it's used elsewhere. It's not referring to a specific theater, but rather the idea of movies as a whole. This is no different from saying "I haven't been to the movies in a while". There is no need for us to be talking about a specific theater.

>>221
So saying "I'm going to watch a cinema" makes sense? I always thought of cinema as either a theater or the film industry

>>222
In British English, yes.

http://rghost.net/51409224
The first guy said "How many more miles till they come, Gilbert?"
But his "how many" sounds like "howny". Do you really pronounce "how many" like that?

Do you speak English?
Yes.

Are you fluent?
Yes.

What resources did you use to learn?
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Unix man pages
Lost (seasons 1 through 4)
A couple of old radio shows about history and politics

Post some useful links.
http://dictionary.reference.com/
http://archive.org/details/DrWilliamPierceAudioArchive308RadioBroadcasts

>>224
On occasion, yes, but it's rather dialectal or slangish. Nonetheless, I think this particular pronunciation is exclusive to the portrayal of the character, played by Leonardo DiCaprio, as having a mental illness which effects his speech (among other things).

The clip is from the movie "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" by the bye.

>>224
>>226
It's most likely because he's retarded, but it can sound like that some places

>>227
Thanks for being crass.

Greeting!
While watching Jigoku Shoujo I heard the protagonist girl say - "...However, you will have to deliver your end of the bargain" - in the 1st episode. In all the following episodes she was saying that same phrase with ON-preposition before "your" like "deliver ON your end of the bargain.
So I was wondering if both those variants are OK and grammatically correct? Google says both of them actually take place in speech. What do you think, anon?

>>229
They do. Both are, though I would say "deliver on" is more natural. "Deliver your end of the bargain" has the connotation that you might actually be physically delivering something, where "Deliver on your end of the bargain" only means to uphold or ensure your commitment.

>>230
Thanks so much! This one commends you for your helpfulness.

"He stuck around till around dinnertime, talking about all the guys at Pencey that he hated their guts, and squeezing **this** big pimple on his chin."

Why's there 'this' instead of 'that'. I don't understand and am asking because it isn't narrator's pimple and it isn't near him.

>>232
Casual dialect. The "correct" thing to write would be "squeezing A big pimple on his chin", but sometimes you will come across people using "this" (for something the listener is not expected to be familiar with) or "that" (for something the listener is expected to be familiar with) instead of "a".

"He was carrying this book around, you see" - He was carrying around a book, but the listener is not expected to be familiar with it

"He was carrying that book around, you see" - He was carrying around a book, and the listener is expected to be familiar with what book the speaker is talking about.

I want to say "They tend to write stories about the battles that are very boring" where I mean that the stories are boring, not the battles. But how can I say it without misunderstanding?

Also is it right to make relative clauses this way? I mean constructions like "<object1> ... <object2> that <a clause in which the subject is object1>"?

>>234
You could put "boring" right before battles. That would work fine. The sentence you wrote there seems fine, though, but it depends on what the readers' expectation is.

>>235
>You could put "boring" right before battles.
Maybe you meant before 'stories'?

>>234
Grammatically accurate, but ambiguous. You'd be better off saying something like

"Their stories about battles tend to be very boring." Here there is no doubt that the stories, and not the battles, are boring.

>>236
Yes, whoops. "They tend to write boring stories about the battles".

>>189
What about 'she or he'? Is it plural or singular?

"He looked as if he were going to a parade."

Why is there 'were' instead of 'was'?