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to make + bare inf.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-29 20:48

I was taught that after 'to make' I should always use a bare infinitive, but I accidentally have met this in a Blake's poem:

The emmet's inch and eagle's mile
Make lame Philosophy to smile.

So, I wonder how it sounds for natives. Old-fashioned? Strange? Normal? Just incorrect? What if i use it in an ordinal conversation (I try to enrich my English), would it be OK?

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-29 21:13

Poetry is a poor place to get your English lessons from because of the "artistic license" poets take.  It would sound strange and incorrect if you tried to use it in anything but poetry.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 5:38

>>2 is right. Poetry tends to go incorrectly in order. Usually what the verb is doing is placed between the verb and object, as shown in 'make lame Philosophy to smile.' In normal English it would likely go something like, 'To smile make Philosophy lame.'

It would make you an asshole if you said it outside of poetry. Never take your English lessons from poetry, they're all useless assholes that fuck English up because they want an orderless language. If they want a language they can play in and still make semantic sense, they need to learn Russian and get the hell out of America.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 5:44

>>3
Addendum to that post.
Make can be used archaically, as in 'Make haste' or in idioms, 'Make like a dog and lie!'

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 8:35

>In normal English it would likely go something like, 'To smile make Philosophy lame.'

Sorry, I guess in normal English it would rather be  '[that inch and mile] make lame Philosophy smile' i.e. 'to make' + bare inf. and 'lame' as an adjective, not a verb. My question was about 'to make' + an ordinal infinitive as in the example, i should have named the thread more clear.

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 9:23

小学4年生の頃、友達のRがセクハラ教師にスカート捲り上げられてた。
学年全員の前で。
Rが抵抗したら、「皆にお漏らししたマ○コ見てもらえ。」っつって、パンツ脱がそうとして、
それにキレたその子の双子の姉Aが先生殴ったら、先生もキレて、
Aの髪掴んで顔を壁に何回も打ち付けてた。
先生が打ち付けんの止める頃にはAの顔血まみれで、
Rと姉妹の親友が急いで保健室つれてってた。
先生がそれ追いかけようとしたけど、学年全員でフルボッコにした。

Aは鼻骨折。
先生は確か鼻骨折、歯何本か折れた、鎖骨骨折、全身打撲。学校転任した。

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 9:38

高校の時の科学部主導のリンチが結構すごかった
校内柔道大会があれば優勝するわ駅伝大会で優勝するわの体力自慢と
毒物作ったり火炎瓶から果ては時限発火装置作るマッドだが生成期優秀な科学部員たち
ある日部活外の生徒がハムスターを虐待して死なせてしまう事件勃発で盛大な私刑が始まった
体力自慢は定番の殴る蹴るのリンチ
普通のは地道に夜間の無言電話
マッドな連中はロッカーに火薬仕込んで爆発とか教科書と制服を薬品でボロボロにするとかしとった
最終的にそいつの自転車を爆破炎上させた時点で学校側がストップかけたので和解して新聞沙汰にならず
体力自慢は兼部してた運動部でインターハイに出たりするし
マッドは上位の大学進学ができるほどの成績優秀者だわ(実際東大合格したりしとった)
普通のは平均ではあるが生活面ではなんの問題も起こさないようなやつばかりで
リンチ受けた側の方が常日頃問題行動の多かったせいか学校側が処分したがらなかったのもある
リンチ受けた側の親が抗議してたが科学部の連中の結託が硬くておそれをなした生徒が泣きを入れて終わりだった
和解っていうより脅迫だけどな

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 9:56

中2の時、俺は何もしてなかったんだが(すこーしだけ髪染めてたかな?)
1個上のA先輩に便所に呼び出されて、土下座させられて何度もぶん殴られた。
数日後、別の先輩(←怖くて頭おかしいってので地元でも有名だった)が俺の
とこに来て「お前Aにシメられたらしいな!俺に無断で!俺がよーく
言い聞かせておくから許してくれな!」って言って帰ってったんだ。
『うへへwざまぁwwww』と思ってたら、その日からAが学校来なくなって
一ヵ月くらい後に自殺した・・・
これは今でも俺の人生で一番後味が悪い事件だ。

Name: Anonymous 2009-07-30 19:17

>>5
Well saying that makes no semantic sense. It has no real meaning. The only way you can make sense out of it is what I said, otherwise you're heavily using context to convey meaning.

Name: Anonymous 2009-08-02 18:26

But your variant doesn't suit the rhythm.

Also, the full text http://www.online-literature.com/blake/612/

P.S. A possible meaning is 'big and small are equal for phylosophy' or 'nothing matters for phylosophy' or something like

Name: Anonymous 2009-08-03 5:09

>>3
The second line clearly means "Make lame Philosophy smile," the 'to' is a left-over from fossilised German structures.

Name: Anonymous 2009-08-03 6:20

The mere fact a bunch of English speakers are debating about the meaning of the line indicates that it would be a terrible idea to use it in non-artistic speech.  Stick with to make and a bare infinitive if you want to be understood.

Name: Anonymous 2009-08-03 16:19

ITT: we pretend that English has always had the same grammatical rules. Fuck, do you guys not remember any Shakespeare from Highschool?

Name: Anonymous 2009-08-04 4:06

>>13
I wanted to bash that fucker over the head every time I read his fucked up grammar. My teacher made us fucking read that shit with no translation, and we had to interpret it. No one got an A.

>>12
Also he's right.

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-28 8:12

OP, it sounds archaic to speak that way, but not totally unintelligible. You'd sound like a Shakespeare character though, and nobody wants that.

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-28 18:18

When using the past participle you don't need to use it.

Ex. I made cake.

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