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What's the most logical language?

Name: Anonymous 2009-02-19 15:40

beep

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-05 12:10

>>36
Their language was so logical that our crazy world drove it to extinction.

Name: jewelry wholesale 2009-03-06 3:03

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Name: jewelry wholesale 2009-03-06 3:09

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Name: bang 2009-03-07 10:45

Arabic isn't all that logical. It's like Latin + nonsense. There's a masculine and feminine form of every word, in almost all forms (most annoying being the possessive and plural). Even colors have a masculine and feminine form.
ex: za'hari(pink, masculine), za'haria(pink, feminine), az'rak(blue, masculine), z'raka(blue, feminine).

The writing system isn't so complicated; the diacritical markings help things make a bit more sense. Things are also spelled/writing as they're heard. But, there are the letters/characters that sound almost EXACTLY the same. Dha, da, theh, teh, gha, kha, etc. They can make spelling words confusing, especially if you have hearing problems.

The noun/verb "pronoun attachments" (that's what a friend that speaks Arabic calls them) are also sometimes complicated. For example, the word for "I" is "ana". So, to say something like "My book", you'd attach "ana" to the end of the word. Except it wouldn't be "ana", it'd the yeh character.

It would look like: كتابي; not that you would know how to read it, but it says "ketabi", the literal meaning being "book I", which is (not so) obviously interpreted into "my book".

That's my opinion on Arabic. (Sorry. if it's a boring or inaccurate read - I haven't gotten much sleep)

I think Japanese is more logical. The whole language is spoken and understood by context or situation. I also believe the writing system is perfect (kana); syllabaries make it so that the syllable only has one pronunciation. There is an exception for the 'g' consonant, but I think that's it.


inb4 languagefites, this is just my opinion.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-07 18:58

Arschloooooch!

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-07 21:48

ESPERANTO!
there are, as far as my knowledge goes, no exceptions. All nouns end in -o (plural ends in -oj), adjectives in -a (plural in -aj), present verbs in -as, past in -is, future in -os. add prefixes and suffixes to a root word and it always works. just makes complete sense. too bad no one speaks it.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-07 22:57

>>46
>Latin + Nonsense

What? Arabic is nothing like Latin at all.

It has genders, which of course could be sucky, but the genders themselves can be thought of as purely symbolic in most cases. They often separate concepts. The rest of the language is pretty fucking logical.

See, Arabic is composed of a root system with primarily triconsonantal roots (say k-t-b or كتب for things pertaining to reading). From that you get for instance كِتَابْ (kitaab), or book; كَاتِبْ (kaatib), or writer; كَتَيَ (kataba), or "he wrote". You can expand on this like a fucking maniac, using very logical rules for prefixes, suffixes, interfixes, root mutations, vowel mutations - you name it - to build up words that would take a whole sentence to express in English. Taken to the extreme, you can get things like كَتَبْتِيهُولْهُمْ (katabtiihuulhum), meaning "you, a single female, wrote it to them". This is all very dynamic too, and you can combinate and break things up in a lot of different ways, giving such nuance to the language that English speakers can only dream of.

Other logical things:
- Pronounced as written. As far as I know there is only one single exception to this in the entire language (disregarding very recent loanwords, of course), and that's الله, Allah, where the L-sound is pharyngealised.
- Vowels come in long and short forms, and the short ones aren't written unless it's necessary to remove ambiguity.
- Very, very few exceptions. There are some different declension/inflection rules between masculine/feminine words, and for roots containing semivowels, but otherwise the language is very regular compared to most others.


So yes, Arabic is logical as fuck.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-07 23:03

>>49
>كَتَيَ (kataba), or "he wrote".

All right, I typoed. It's: كَتَبَ

Name: bang 2009-03-08 9:04

>>49

I guess that's true. However, there are still word forms that have no rules. Those are what make things harder to understand, when I'm reading. I can't think of a decent example, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Still, I think seems Japanese is more logical than Arabic -- less complicated, to boot.

You do bring up a valid argument though, it does have some aspects which are *very* logical. I'll try learning more about the language as I study Japanese.

(again, this post may not make sense; I've woken up earlier than I did yesterday :<)

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-08 12:18

Arabic has a good system, which I am a fan of, but I don't find it really logical. It is a language which evolved naturally and retains such quirks, a truly logical language is artificial, and my bid for modern turkish came from it being pretty much artificial to begin with.

Mind you, in most Arabic texts short vowels are rarely placed, so to "read" the word you have to actually know the word - not an issue for an arabic speaker, but a pain in the ass for a learner.

Turkish, like Japanese, is an agglutinative language, and every word can be broken down progressively, unlike Arabic in which you take some apart linearly and you have to go from the three-letter-root for the meaning. The only illogical thing is the vowel harmony and consonant changes resulting in several "similar" endings - for example the past-tense suffix could be -di, for example geldi (he/she/it came), but in another word, it can be -du, oldu (it happened) but it's actually the same suffix. This stuff was problematic during the Ottoman times when the Arabic script was utilized, for example "Oğlun oldu" (you had a son) and "oğlun öldü" (your son died) were both written identically, as اولتى(from the archaic pronunciations, oltı and ölti respectively), but with that removed things are simple.

Also, it's phonetic, and there is just one irregular verb in the whole language, no genders

It is very much like Japanese in this aspect, however since it was reformed quite recently and doesn't retain a lot of things for "backwards compatibility", I believe it is more logical. Also, let's admit it - phonetic latin script is easier.

But of course, all these result in a tasteless language and I really wouldn't recommend anyone to learn it as a hobby.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-09 14:32

mexican

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-10 6:52

>>53
gtfo

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-10 18:29

>>39

The writing system is almost laughably easy. There are no capital letters, no vowels (in modern, printed Arabic, anyway), and there are only a few extra letters compared to English.

Seriously, it can be learnt in an hour. (By anyone with half a brain.)

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-10 18:53

>>55
learning the SCRIPT is easy as hell

however, to properly utilize it, you need to have some knowledge of arabic due to lack of short vowels in most non-pedagogical texts

also, reading shitty arabic handwriting is a bitch, but now that I think of it that can be said about most if not all scripts

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 0:46

>>55
n y cnt. mdn stnd arbc lks lk ths, whch wld b hll fr a nn ntv spkr

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 2:04

>>57

In modrn standrd arbc, long vowls ar wrtn, as wl as vowls at the start of a word. So it wuld lok lik ths, actly.
Also, gmnatd consnnts arn't wrttn.

A lot esier thn yu thnk for a natv spekr, bt lernng it is a btch.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 3:51

>>58
Arabic n00b here
so it wouldn't get confusing with the 3 letter word roots when you omit the vowels at all?

like k-t-b there could be any combination of vowels around that

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 4:29

>>59

Yes, but position within the sentence and context usually gives the meaning away.

For example, ktb could mean 'books' (kutub) or 'he wrote' (kataba), but kataba would usually come at the beginning of a sentence and kutub would usually be modified with a personal pronoun (kutubka, your books) or with an adjective (kutub jadidah, new books), or with the definite article (al-kutub, the books).

Given enough practice, it becomes very easy.

>>58

intial vowls, lng vowls, and dphthngs are wrttn, so it bcms quit easy. i actlly prfr it to th englsh way.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 4:41

>>59

PS - Roots can be modified by consonants too, and not just vowels.

If we say that C = a consonant of the root (in Arabic 90% of words are formed from three consonants, KTB, QWL, SJD, SLM, etc.)

KTB = things to do with writing
SJD = things to do with bowing down
SLM = things to do with peace

Inserting short 'a' vowels between each root consonant, gives you the perfect (or past tense) verb in the 3rd person singular masculine, or 'he'. So, KaTaBa (he wrote), SaJaDa (he bowed down), etc.

But adding a ma/mu to the start gives the place/person who does the thing. So maKTaB (place of writing = office), maSJiD (place of bowing down = mosque), and muSLiM (person who is peaceful = Muslim).

There are many, many more patterns, but you get the idea. All very logical.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 4:45

>>61

So we have,

CaCaCa = perfect of the thing (past tense, 3rd masc. sg)
yaCCvC = imperfect of the thing (present tense, 3rd masc. sg)
maCCvC = place/person of the thing
CaCiiC = adjective of the thing
'aCCaC = comparative/superlative of the thing (bigger, best, etc)

Ad nauseam...

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 5:19

>>60->>62

thank you very much

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 5:20

>>62
So Maktab would be writer?

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 8:47

I'd go with German. Grammar is easy as pie and about 90% of the vocabulary is identical to English. Pronounciation is very easy as well.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 9:00

>>64

maktab is office. maktabah is library. kaatib is writer.

kaatib (from the pattern CaaCiC, is the active participle, i.e. -ing words in English). so kaatib is 'masculine-writing-thing' = 'writer'. kaatibah would be a feminine-writing-thing.

But you could also say 'ana kaatib, meaning I'm writing, or I'm going to write.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-11 11:31

>>65
reactionface.jpg

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-12 17:46

mexican!

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-15 21:44

I'd go for easy pidgin languages like Swahili etc.
Very simple grammar and so on, so there's less potential for logical errors in the system.

Name: Anonymous 2009-03-16 18:49

Lojban and Turkish.

Name: Anonymous 2011-02-27 19:07

Linear A

Name: Anonymous 2011-02-27 20:18

>>69
Pidgin languages like Swahili
swahili isn't a pidgin dipshit

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-01 4:01

probably chinese because it hardly has any grammar at all.

What do people mean when they say that chinese has no grammar at all? >>16? Or there's something more?

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-01 15:49

>>73
I'm not >>16 but go torrent the Michel Thomas Chinese course
there's very little grammar at all, no conjugation
for I am a man, you say "I to be man"

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-01 18:04

>>74
you really don't understand chinese

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-01 19:14

Mathematics.

/thread

Suck me off later.

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-01 22:35

>>75
nah barely a basic knowledge
but there isn't a conjugation system

>>76
math
logical
because a logical person would spend their time doing derivatives

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-02 23:04

How about Ancient Greek? There have been studies about how the language is based on mathematical harmony, or so I've heard.

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-06 21:23

>>78
I think I'v also read an articl about that

Name: Anonymous 2011-03-18 23:34

lojban is the most logical
it's in its name.

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