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Japanese language software

Name: Anonymous 2007-10-31 7:35

I want to learn Japanese, but there's a huge lack of Japanese classes in my area, so I'd like to get my hands on some Japanese language learning software.
Can anyone tell me my best choices for this? I know it's unlikely that I'll end up speaking fluent Japanese just from software but I want to do the best I can.

Name: ImmaInTehDark 2007-10-31 20:06

Lulz, may I ask why young Weaboo?

If you rub my penis, I will cum a magical genie who will tell you all.. /Sarcasm

Seriously though, have you looked into Rosetta Stone/Pimsleur?

Name: Anonymous 2007-10-31 21:03

Excellent question, I'll tell you my secret. I want to learn Japanese because I want to read/speak Japanese.

Yeah I just finished downloading Rosetta Stone, which I chose just because it costs a lot. But I was just wondering if there were better choices out there.

Name: Anonymous 2007-10-31 21:37

The free choices are by far the best, and you can learn the entire language for free.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ is the best site, and the one you should follow. Don't read anything else (except kanji) before you've fully learned everything in that guide.

http://www.japanese-irc.net/index.php/Japanese_Resources is a site with many links. People like it, but I've never really used it myself, so I wouldn't know.

I used Readwrite Kanji to learn kanji. I used the site listed on http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ to learn kana.

There is, by the way, a huge batch of Japanese learning material on some tracker, you'll find it if you search for it over at isohunt. It's insanely huge, but then again it pretty much contains everything you'll ever need, and then some.

Good luck learning Japanese, it's really simple once you've gotten over the first steps. There is a rule to how everything works (except for some kanji readings) as opposed to the 5 million exceptions in the English language.

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-01 18:40

I believe Rosetta Stones is horrible! You should try to download Pimsleur from torrentspy/thepiratebay or buy Assimil. Rosetta Stones will waste your time and get you nowhere.

If you want to learn sentences that are commonly used in conversations, use Pimsleur or Assimil. If you want to keep drilling "The cowboy is on the horse" until you memorized it, use Rosetta Stones.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 5:53

>>5
lol yeah.. I was wondering if these lessons on Rosetta Stones were going anywhere.

Ok, so can you give me more info on Pimsleur and Assimil? Which is better?

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-02 11:50

Pimsleur is easier and all you have to do is listen to a tape for 30 minutes a day, saying what it asks you to say. Assimil teaches you much more words but it's not as easy to use as Pimsleur. The methods are different but both work well. I did Pimsleur before doing Assimil and it went pretty well so I recommend doing that. Here are some videos of me speaking Chinese after less than 1 year of self-study: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=zhongguohua88

Pimsleur is damn expensive but you can easily find it on any major torrent website if you don't care about downloading it. Assimil books are about $15 each (there are 2 for Japanese) and you can find the audio on P2P softwares (or pay about $200 for it).

Basically, Pimsleur will teach you a word and ask you to repeat it at fixed intervals. Example, it teaches you word X, you repeat word X, you repeat it again in 30 sec, again in 1 minute, again in 5 minute, again in 10 minutes, again the next day, etc. The interval gets longer and longer as you get to know the word better. It does that for about 500 words and you use them in sentences so that make you learn the grammar without even studying it!

With Assimil you just read a text in English while listening the Japanese, then listen the Japanese while reading the Japanese, then speak at the same time until you have memorized a whole dialog, then you do the same thing for about 3 months, then you translate dialogs from English to Japanese for 3 months.

3 months of Pimsleur + 6 months of Assimil should make you proficient in Japanese in about 9 months. Then you should download "Remembering the Kanji" to learn how to write, which should take you 6 months if you do it somewhat seriously. This book is one of the best there is to learn Kanji. You can download it on www.ebookee.com, on P2P softwares, on torrent websites or pay a ridiculous price for it on Amazon/eBay.

Just email me if you have any question.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 12:59

Why don't you forget all that Pimsleur/Rosetta Stone/Heisig shit and buy a real Japanese text book. There is no easy and fun way to learn any language, and it's going to be very frustrating and you'll probably quit a couple of times.

And those who say that "yeah Japanese is so ee-zee lulz ^_______^" are liars. Yes, the language is logical, but with its vocabulary that'll stay in your head like water in a broken bucket, expressions like「の方が」that will literally force your brains to rethink the way language works, all that kanji (actually you have to learn 3000 kanji, not 1945) and the long time it takes until you can read Japanese text confidently, Japanese is no easy piece of cake.

Also, you're never even taught how to properly pronounce Japanese. So you can pronounce あ and れ like a native? Big deal, but you most likely can't use the Japanese pitch accent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent), so you still sound like a 馬鹿な外人, no matter what.

But don't get discouraged. Japanese is fun as long as you study hard enough, think in the language and read and write (with a pen and paper) often. In the end it's going to be very rewarding, but never go all generation Y and think "I'm a natural born talent, this will be a breeze!" That's the best way to fail.

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-02 13:48

I cannot speak for Japanese as I never studied it seriously but I can say from experience that Chinese is way easier than most people think it is. It didn't took me long to master the sounds and the tones, I simply listened and repeated them over and over before learning any word, that way I could already pronounce most of the language before understanding it.

I know about the variations in Japanese and the parts you have to add to words in order to create new words. Do you think babies in Japan learn that from a textbook? NO! They learn it by constant input, their brain absorbs the information and the babies learn to speak. I learned almost no grammar in Chinese and I make very few grammatical mistakes when speaking. I don't even have to think about grammar. If you learn a grammar rule and rely on it to speak, you will have to think for a few seconds before saying every words.

Forget the way you were taught languages in high schools, this way is absolutely PATHETIC.

Pimsleur is, by the way, very effective and you will learn what it teaches you pretty damn well. "Real" textbook are not very efficient and primitive. These methods are outdated, there are ways to learn a new language way faster with technology and researches.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 15:01

>>9
I know about the variations in Japanese and the parts you have to add to words in order to create new words. Do you think babies in Japan learn that from a textbook? NO! They learn it by constant input, their brain absorbs the information and the babies learn to speak.

Oh God I can't believe you're (implicitly) comparing adults to babies. Protip: you can't compare the two. Children learn much faster than teenagers and adults. The older you get the harder learning languages begins to get. Babies can absorb things naturally and thus need no textbooks. They're in a phase when they're rapidly developing both physically and mentally and the "absorb when you hear" thing is completely lost by the time they reach their teens.

I learned almost no grammar in Chinese and I make very few grammatical mistakes when speaking.

Chinese is an easy language grammar wise. Actually, the language lacks grammar in the European sense. There are no grammatical genders, conjugating, cases, etc. You just have to remember the correct word order, where to put things like 要 and voilà, you speak fluent Chinese. I dare you to use the listening approach with languages like German or Swedish or Russian or Finnish. I can guarantee it won't take you far.

I don't even have to think about grammar. If you learn a grammar rule and rely on it to speak, you will have to think for a few seconds before saying every words.

You know, no one actually thinks about grammar when they speak.

At least normal people.

Pimsleur is, by the way, very effective and you will learn what it teaches you pretty damn well.

True, but you actually learn very little from Pimsleur (I have experience). Just some basic grammar and a very limited vocabulary, so I wouldn't waste my money on it.

"Real" textbook are not very efficient and primitive. These methods are outdated, there are ways to learn a new language way faster with technology and researches.

These methods are only outdated if you believe pseudo-linguists like Heisig that are out to get your money. In language learning, just like in losing weight, the traditional approach still remains as the best and most effective way.

The only way that might be more effective than the traditional textbook approach is actually living among the people whose language you're learning, but most people do not have that option. It's a different way of learning since you're bombarded by the language 24/7 and thus, in order to survive, you foirce yourself to learn and understand what people say to you. But don't get me wrong, it's not the same as the Pimsleur method.

As for the Heisig method, frankly I and many other people have never met a person who speaks fluent Japanese and has used the method to learn kanji.

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-02 15:46

The "babies learn faster than adults" is a MYTH that have been disproved over and over by various studies. If babies seem to learn faster, it's because that's all they do. If an adult was to listen to a language for over a year without pronouncing a single word and then started to speak like a baby did, his ears would be used to the sounds and he would have a very slight accent (but this situation is very unlikely to happen since adults have busy lives and responsibilities). Babies are "better" at developing a native accent because the muscles of their ears are new, they will therefore hear every sound, but except for being able to develop a flawless pronunciation they do not have any advantage over teens/adults. If both a baby and an adult were learning the same thing the same way, the adult would pick it up faster and better.

Heisig's book is all about mnemonics. You won't learn how to read with it but you will remember the kanji and how to write them without using the primitive "copy it over and over" method. Once you know how to write them, you can use various books with an audio file, read and absorb information.

Where did that "language learning HAVE to be boring" mentality came from? I see that everywhere and I have it. Schools have brainwashed people and now they don't believe they can learn while having fun, learning now have to be formal to work.

"You know, no one actually thinks about grammar when they speak."

Then what's the point of learning it when you can simply internalize it? Will becoming an engineer make you a better driver? No. Will memorizing grammar rules help you to speak better? No. If you are exposed to hundreds or even thousands of sentences containing a certain rule, you will internalize that rule and whenever you have to use it, it will simply "feel right". This is what it is all about.

Pimsleur's vocabulary is indeed quite limited, but it manages to teaches the words and the sentences present in it pretty damn well and you will remember them. It will by no mean make you fluent, but it will give you good foundations to continue your learning.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 18:24

If you are not going to pussy out, here’s how to learn Japanese (or any language) like an adult:

1) Learn kana and jouyou kanji via Heisig (or rote memorization if you're a dumbass) The other 1000 (they are mostly characters for names) you'll pick up as you need them.
2) Find any media made for native Japanese that you’re interested in (manga, anime, drama, translated American movies, music). NO ENGLISH SUBS though.
3) Use a dictionary to understand sentences that you don’t know yet from the media. Store the newly translated sentences in a SRS program (try to use a monolingual Jap dictionary ASAP). One side with the original sentence, the other with the English translation, make notes of the particles, subjects, etc but don’t memorize them, only understanding what the sentence meant is good enough. (switch from English to Japanese explanations ASAP)
4) Review with the SRS program for a long time (~2 years) repeating step 3, changing media, using learned Japanese to understand harder concepts.
5) Whenever you're free, do something in Japanese. Listen to music or read a book, anything.
5) Fluency!

You’ll be learning like a baby learns (surrounded by Japanese 24/7), but on crack. There’s no shortcut but there is a good way through. Textbooks are not it. Pimsleur is not it. Classes are not it. They get you used to a stilted and unnatural form of the language. I've never met anyone who was fluent in a foreign language that used classes or textbooks.

Now evidence to why this method will work is at http://www.antimoon.com/ Here are two adult Poles that learned English in three years to better fluency than most English Majors before ever stepping out of the country and without any classes, Using only American media, a dictionary, and their trusty SRS program. The steps are based on their method.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 20:14

>>11

Heisig's book is all about mnemonics. You won't learn how to read with it but you will remember the kanji and how to write them without using the primitive "copy it over and over" method. Once you know how to write them, you can use various books with an audio file, read and absorb information.

>> 12

1) Learn kana and jouyou kanji via Heisig (or rote memorization if you're a dumbass) The other 1000 (they are mostly characters for names) you'll pick up as you need them.

You should take a look at these threads, both of you

http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=15&thread_id=9609

http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=9&thread_id=8755

In the end Heisig is not going to take you as far as you think.

Where did that "language learning HAVE to be boring" mentality came from? I see that everywhere and I have it. Schools have brainwashed people and now they don't believe they can learn while having fun, learning now have to be formal to work.

I'm not saying that it has to be boring, I'm just saying that these "revolutionizing" new techniques might not be the best options in the long run.

Will memorizing grammar rules help you to speak better? No.

lol wut? Somehow I think you will speak a language (at least a bit) better after memorizing a grammar point... You've never studied German, have you?

http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html

If you are exposed to hundreds or even thousands of sentences containing a certain rule, you will internalize that rule and whenever you have to use it, it will simply "feel right". This is what it is all about.

I understand your point, but the issue isn't that black and white. English is not my first language and I've learned it by constant immersion since I was five years old, but even today when I'm writing English and thinking of a construction that "feels right", it actually isn't always correct. Internalizing takes a lot of effort, and you'll never be as good as you might fancy, especially when you start as an adult.

Pimsleur's vocabulary is indeed quite limited, but it manages to teaches the words and the sentences present in it pretty damn well and you will remember them. It will by no mean make you fluent, but it will give you good foundations to continue your learning.

I think I can easily learn and remember simple words and phrases without wasting $300...

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-02 23:13

>>13

I think you're expecting too much from a book entitled Remembering the Kanji: A complete course on how not to forget the MEANING and WRITING of Japanese Characters. The whole point of learning via Heisig is to give you the same advantage that the Chinese and Korean have that are learning Japanese. Chinese and Korean both have the Hanzi and Hanzul which are exact carbon copies of the Kanji, however they can't use that to read Japanese. A familiarization and meaning to these arbitrary shapes gave them the edge over Westerners that were trying to learn Japanese and quickly sped up their progress.

I understand you will not read Japanese with Heisig (In fact he explicitly mentions this in the introduction, in case you couldn't parse the title), but I also know that I memorized the stroke order and English meaning to over 2000 kanji. I can now use that knowledge I already have to attach as many readings and meanings to it like I do with English, easily. Add a method to internalize any more I come across with and Heisig comes out on top for me. Divide and conquer.

There are many ways to do something, some smarter and more efficient than others. These methods aren't new and revolutionary. It simply simulates the same environment that a foreigner stuck in a country has, if you are serious enough to learn (Referring to my 5 or so steps). If your brain can still learn via rote, more power to you, but I can't anymore. I've grown up and these cells need more stimulation if I want to keep something up there.

Languages are always evolving. How did you learn that "lol wut"?  It's obviously incorrect English but feels right. However you are smart enough, I think, to know only to use it in a casual setting and how to use it. This is true fluency. How much effort did it take you to internalize it? Learning a language is only becoming an actor. You copied that statement from multiple sources, not needing a grammar rule that some bored English professor cooked up. Internalizing never stops, thats why slang becomes slang and new words and catch phrases are made up and become common every day.

Grammar is a good "why", but a shitty "how". If natives make mistakes in their own language (I know I does), why the hell can't you? As an adult I have more control over the input I'll receive than a child. A kid can only rely on others to speak properly because you don't know any better.

And lastly, Pimsleur is free via internet lulz. But still rather shitty to learn a language.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-03 10:48

>>14
I think you're expecting too much from a book entitled Remembering the Kanji: A complete course on how not to forget the MEANING and WRITING of Japanese Characters.

I'm not expecting anything from that book, quit putting words in my mouth. I've downloaded it from teh internets so here, too, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

If you actually bothered to click one of those links in my last post you would've known that you can't do jack shit with only knowing the artificial English meaning of the kanji and the correct way of writing it. Sure, you know the meaning, but as it was illustrated in that thread, it won't help you at all in deciphering the meaning of words with two or more kanji in them.

Chinese and Korean both have the Hanzi and Hanzul which are exact carbon copies of the Kanji, however they can't use that to read Japanese. A familiarization and meaning to these arbitrary shapes gave them the edge over Westerners that were trying to learn Japanese and quickly sped up their progress.

Koreans call it hanja, not hanzul. As for the latter I think you meant hangul, which is the native Korean writing system, akin to hiragana and katakana in its usage, since Korean and Japanese cannot be properly written with just kanji/hanzi.

Also, the Chinese, Japanese and Korean systems are not "exact carbon copies" of each other, they differ very much actually. Kanji has some characters that are native to Japan, such as 駅. You can't expect Chinese and Korean people to know what that means just because they otherwise happen to use the "same" writing system. Plus, at school Koreans are taught fewer characters than their Japanese and Chinese counterparts, so Korean people don't necessarily know what some of the more advanced and rarer characters might mean. Similarly you can't expect the Japanese and Korean people to know the meaning of 书, since it doesn't exist in kanji or hanja.

but I also know that I memorized the stroke order and English meaning to over 2000 kanji. I can now use that knowledge I already have to attach as many readings and meanings to it like I do with English, easily. Add a method to internalize any more I come across with and Heisig comes out on top for me. Divide and conquer.

Learning first to write the kanji and then to read them, you're still going to end up using the exact same amount of time you would with the "old-fashined" rote memorization.

And lastly, Pimsleur is free via internet lulz. But still rather shitty to learn a language.

Yeah, I know, since Demonoid is where I got my version of Pimsleur Cantonese. Shit still sux, and there are plenty of people who have paid the said $300 for it.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-03 11:46

>>15
Ah but I did read the thread. One of them was basically "I didn't learn it that way and you shouldn't either!". The other was how the hell can you use 屈する to decode 窮屈 and 理屈. Very easily. The meaning of these kanji compounds are in the the very first character. Heisig's word for 窮 is tight (which my English can easily expand to constraint) and 理 is logic (I can also expand it to theory and reason). That extra character is just for differing the sound from other words (Which reading you learned from 屈する)  Now there are some exceptions to this, but still gives you a step ahead rather then diving right in.

Yes your right in Korea's actual name for their systems, but to be honest I didn't look it up. I meant Hanja actually, Hangul is the better system of all the Asian langauges. It was a mistake to reference Korea, they are pretty much phasing out the Hanja.

"they differ very much actually. Kanji has SOME characters that are native to Japan"

Some and very much don't really help your argument. I'm more interested in the fact that they have a similar meaning in all the languages. With only a few exceptions such as 駅 (station) which is homegrown Jap, to hold the Chinese back, they have an obvious advantage.  Instead of learning a brand new 3000+ characters writing, meaning, AND readings, they only learn maybe 50 at best; the rest of the time is focused on readings. Most if not all of the 50+ are made up of the same primitives that are used in their Hanzi. As a westerner, all those characters looked the same to me a year ago, now they all are distinctly different. These are the advantages I was talking about.

Ive finished Heisig's book in 2 weeks and the kana in a weekend. But still that might not apply to other, less imaginative, people. I dived right into manga after that, albeit with furigana, and am now enjoying my way to literacy. I know it will take time, but I want to have fun getting there.

BTW, someone actually argued you have to be advanced in a language to be fluent in one of those threads. e.g. a linguist more advanced than natives were. Some also want to pass the Kanji Kentei, a test made for NATIVES ONLY. If they have those goals, of course methods like Heisig look like the devil. They really shouldn't have the same expectations of everyone else.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-03 17:20

>>16
The other was how the hell can you use 屈する to decode 窮屈 and 理屈. Very easily. The meaning of these kanji compounds are in the the very first character. Heisig's word for 窮 is tight (which my English can easily expand to constraint) and 理 is logic (I can also expand it to theory and reason). That extra character is just for differing the sound from other words (Which reading you learned from 屈する)  Now there are some exceptions to this, but still gives you a step ahead rather then diving right in.

Way to miss the point. The thread in question is not about "how to use 屈する to decode 窮屈 and 理屈", it's about how unreliable it is to guess the meanings of words with only the knowledge of the meanings of the individual characters that make up the word. You're also conveniently ignoring the hard-to-dodge arguments made in the thread by looking at the big picture instead.

But I want to test this further. Let's take the word 原子力発電所. Using the Heisig kanji index (http://ziggr.com/heisig/), I got this:

原 - meadow
子 - child
力 - power
発 - discharge
電 - electricity
所 - place

So, without looking it up from a dictionary, what word do you think this is? Do you honestly think you can deduct the correct meaning of the word from these individual characters? Sure, there are some good clues in it, but I don't believe you can guess the 100% correct meaning of this word.

Or how about 所以? Heisig gives 所 the meaning "place" and 以 the meaning "by means of". In fact, 所以 (ゆえん) means "reason; way of doing; cause; grounds". By using your awesome deducting skills, how can you ever work out the correct meaning of this word? In this case, it's clearly impossible.

>Some and very much don't really help your argument.

And a personal attack, like in >>14 ("in case you couldn't parse the title" (implying I'm slow on the uptake)), helps yours?

Anyhow, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Local_developments and http://homepage2.nifty.com/TAB01645/ohara/ and http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood/9752/kokuji.html

As you can see, there are many 和製漢字, or kanji native to Japan.

With only a few exceptions such as 駅 (station) which is homegrown Jap, to hold the Chinese back, they have an obvious advantage.  Instead of learning a brand new 3000+ characters writing, meaning, AND readings, they only learn maybe 50 at best; the rest of the time is focused on readings. Most if not all of the 50+ are made up of the same primitives that are used in their Hanzi. As a westerner, all those characters looked the same to me a year ago, now they all are distinctly different. These are the advantages I was talking about.

You're still spending the exact same amount of time learning the kanji as a normal learner would. The only difference is that you first learn the English meanings and the kanji themselves, and after that the readings.

And I really don't believe Chinese people learn "50 new characters at best". You're also forgetting kokkun, or "characters that have been given meanings in Japanese different from their original Chinese meanings," as Wikipedia states.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-03 19:26

>>17
"Way to miss the point. The thread in question is not about "how to use 屈する to decode 窮屈 and 理屈", it's about how unreliable it is to guess the meanings of words with only the knowledge of the meanings of the individual characters that make up the word."

That's what studying vocabulary is for. Are you telling me you rather learn the whole word and not the parts that make it up? Are you saying its useless to know the seperate meanings? I hope not. The title says "how to remember the meaning and writing of kanji" and that is exactly what it gives. Not kanji compounds. I don't know who started the argument that Heisig lets them decode every word ever made with kanji but I won't fight that battle.

As I said, there are always exceptions to using the meaning of one kanji to understand compounds. Those good clues are all I need. After I look up the word, which I will always be doing to learn the readings, I'll find out the correct definition. As theres no single kanji for nuclear, they must make up something new (like all technologies that need to be named). Now when i come across compounds that have no connection with their singular kanji meaning, I simply add the whole word to my vocab if I so choose to learn it.

"You're still spending the exact same amount of time learning the kanji as a normal learner would. The only difference is that you first learn the English meanings and the kanji themselves, and after that the readings."

Exactly! Divide and Conquer. I said it saved time because I was forgetting the characters I learned by rote. I was looking for a way out and 2 weeks of my time was little in exchange for keeping the kanji in my head. Instead of rewriting characters now, I enjoy reading and watching Japanese media and learning that way.

"And I really don't believe Chinese people learn "50 new characters at best". You're also forgetting kokkun, or "characters that have been given meanings in Japanese different from their original Chinese meanings," as Wikipedia states."

Those hundreds of wasei kanji are rarely used (probably only by uptight authors), with only a few being important. Again, a small number made up of the same primitives to remember. A distinct advantage over the gaijin with no eye for chinese characters. (side note: I knew the meanings for most of the commonly used 国字 via Heisig)

With those kokkun, the Chinese can just attach a new meaning to the old characters. Anyways, I think your focusing too much on Chinese problems, and not Heisig. I only brought in the Chinese because they have the advantage Heisig didn't (for 常用漢字). If your goal is to remember those rarely used characters, more power to you. I am now conviently in the same spot that the Chinese are when they want to learn Japanese (at least to be a functional adult).

"You're also conveniently ignoring the hard-to-dodge arguments made in the thread by looking at the big picture instead."

What are the arguments, as I pretty much glossed over the threads that were attacking the lone Heisig user. BTW, how do you do those quotes? I'm a newbie at this textboard stuff.

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-05 18:44

Heisig's book is not a magic method that will allow you to understand anything by guessing, it's simply a memory tool that will help you to remember more easily and faster when you get to new material.

People expecting to get any kind of fluency after finishing Heisig are completely unrealistic, it is not a stand alone course and should only be used as a base to decoding the Kanji. Once you have gone through the whole method, you have to move to bilingual texts (with audio if possible) in order to really "learn" how to read. Going directly to bilingual without knowing any Kanji is very difficult and it is much more efficient in the long run to move to this kind of text when you are familiar with the Kanji.

I would personally start with Heisig, get a normal Japanese course with conversations, transcripts, translations and audio. I would then listen to the audio while reading the transcripts and the translations when needed. I would simultaneously read the text at the same time as the audio plays in order to synchronize my rhythm and my intonation with it, and once I get familiar with a certain conversation I would move on to the next. The amount of material you will understand will get bigger every times and this is where Heisig helps you. It won't allow you to guess the meaning of words, but you will understand and remember them better that way.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-06 9:47

OP here. I'm confused as all fuck with what everyone's arguing about but I'm just in the process of learning hiragana and katakana.

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-06 11:13

>>20
hah, back on topic:
Essentially, they're saying start with this:
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana-Reading-Japanese-Syllabaries/dp/0824831640/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2151019-3789523?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194365476&sr=8-1

it's the same book I used and learned he Hiragana and Katakana in a few days.

What everyone's talking about is the same author wrote a book to help remember the Kanji...but it's kind of controversial.  Regardless, here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji-Complete-Japanese-Characters/dp/0824831659/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-2151019-3789523?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194365476&sr=8-3

がんばって!

Name: zhongguohua88 2007-11-06 12:05

>>21

These 2 books are really awesome (the ones to remember Hiragana and Katakana). If you want to check them out before, don't want to wait for the shipping or simply don't care about copyrights, you can download both of them for free on any file sharing website/software or on http://www.ebookee.com/

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-07 12:43

Whoa... so I just wanna download a torrent of something to help me speak japanese. Not write it. What should i get?

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-07 13:59

>>23
Pimsleur Japanese

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-07 15:32

kingB3u4
koenigV8o0
kuningazW5p6
kungenE4j3
kyningP4r9
reyU7r7

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-07 20:31

>>24
Thanks anon. I love you!

Name: Zhongguohua88 2007-11-10 6:57

>>26
I mentioned Pimsleur about 3 times in my posts :(

Name: Anonymous 2007-11-11 14:20

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