Old People & Computers

Is windows simple enough that a middle-aged person can easily grasp by him/herself you think?

It sometimes puzzles me about people of that generation. Take like my dad for example. Each time he MUST use internet explorer eventhough I have tried hard to get him to use firefox so that we can avoid all the spyware and ads shit. But he refuses to because he says he is use to IE and be a waste of time to learn another browser. Also the concept of like minimizing a window or like simple copy/pasting is like soo hard fo him. Not to mention the fact that the moment you re-arrage the desktop icons just slightly, he starts to get totally lost. Heck he STILL hasnt known how to properly open/save a Word Doc. Each time ask me or my siblings to do it. It just boggles me sometimes. I doubt changing to a Mac OS system would make like simpler. Nor changing to a Linux system.

Mind you, I have seen other middle-aged and older people who are able to easily grasp all these simple computer concepts.

I think it's pretty clear that computer's are like foreign languages; they're not going to come easily as you get older.

I'm no psychologist by any stretch, but my two parents, while they may have learned exactly what they have to do to get somewhere and the particular steps to take them there, they have a shitload of trouble applying the same steps to absolutely anything else. They have a different type of brain, it's wooden and rather than learn basics it learns routes. This is probably different for adults with more adaptive type brains that didn't grow up in the “do this, get to that, then do this” learning environment of the early 20th century.

Really, the perfect desktop for an adult is a 1-way stream of prompts, and as of right now that's exactly what a desktop isn't. The issue is that there are far too many choices for them to take into account. They've never dealt with a problem like that before they used computers.

Anyway, much of the issue lies in A) the mouse's unforgiving nature. Mac got the one-click right, but the movement of a mouse and the way it reacts with objects is itself totally hostile to newcomers. They need to make a desktop environment with a feathered range around any object and a mouse with a gravitational pull to it. Then, B) the number of “choices” you're confronted with at a desktop. Many things could be done to alleviate that, but doing them right is another question. Mac's docks are a good start, as they give you just what you need and nothing more, and it also got it right with centralizing every single action you can make on a file on a menu. Mac is much closer to user-friendliness than any other UI I've ever seen. It's too bad it isn't Windows.

Is windows simple enough that a middle-aged person can easily grasp by him/herself you think?
No. Windows is not nearly as easy as people seem to think it is. Quite the opposite.

Well I most likely coulden't skin and hang a moose if my life depended on it because I didnt grow up in a world where you needed to know it. We have been around computers since we were little, its just second nature now.

It varies by person. I've taught evening classes for complete computer noobs, with everyone from thirtysomethings to septegenarians in attendance. In some cases the people in their fifties, sixties and onwards have grasped it straight away while the thirtysomethings struggled for the whole six weeks. I guess it comes down to a person's own intelligence, their confidence (which you have to try and build in the classes anyway), their ability to learn and recall new things, and what methods you use to teach them. I suppose if they put in the practice between lessons too it helps.

Anonymous number two is right about being presented choices, although I don't know why are they so petrified by them. (I love huge menus where I'm presented a bunch of information and choices at once, so I only have to select what I want without travelling through several step menus and guessing where's everything.)

I've also noticed they're strangely afraid of machines. They don't learn because they're afraid of trying (which is essential to familiarize with a UI!). It's not only a problem of computer desktops. My mother wouldn't know how to adjust the brightness of any of my TVs, and she learns how to use the washing-machine and everything in a "do this, get that" way, so she'll select the same features over and over for 10 years, without even caring for anything else she could do with it, in fact the second you want to try anything she's all scared thinking "OH NOES YOU DID THAT WRONG OMG ITLL BREAK". While if you give a TV remote to a child, first thing he'll do is to try every button, and probably get all channels erased - but then he'll easily learn how to configure them.

Breaking news: technology doesn't bite. It's a wonderful sandbox where you can try everything and the digital world rocks. Nothing ever breaks. Anything you do in software, you can undo or do it again with more or less ease. Even if you screw up your OS installation, which should happen to every newbie at least once, it's good, because you'll learn from it; and probably learn even more after resintalling it.

Another problem I detected is: stupid people doesn't know to read. Even if they get a MessageBox saying "Press OK to do what you want [OK] [CANCEL]", they'll come screaming to me saying "it doesn't work." - "What does it happen?" - "It doesn't work." - "What does it says?" - "It doesn't work." - "Have you even read what it says?" - "No, it just doesn't work." That's retardation, you know.

>>1
Oh and that too. You can't get people to use the right tools. The second they learn something, they stick to it out of fear like everything else burnt. It's so hard to get old people to change brands, even if they come cheaper and easier. They so love the "do this, get that" paradigm they'd die by it.

I think the overall point that everyone here is saying is that people of the old generation do not want to learn "trial and error".

I think majority of us learn a new technology by trial and error. There might be a minority that actually follow the manuals and help guidelines on how to use a software or new gadget. The old generation wants to do this perfect and correct the first time. Maybe they've been afriad of the old days when you coud accidently delete off the whole HD?? I doubt they could do such things unless they didn't READ.

I would also like to add how I hate it when you are with old people browsing the web together to find some information. So you do it at your speed. For me for example because I do web designs etc, I tend to know off hand how to get from A to B on one particular website and I speed read the contents until I find the part i need. Of course my parents would tell me STOP and takes them forever to read each page. Even if you point it to them they will STILL want to read everything else to be sure.

>>2
Yes.
>>5
At one time I did the same and also taught ESL and refugee intro computer classes.  IMO the motivation of the individual student is a another key factor besides the ease of use of the system.  At the time the systems were DOS 4 and OS 6.
Your right about presentation and that's where I fear many current instructors need to improve.  If one comes off as a Great Computing Guru, does that not reinforce the students (mistaken) belief that you have to be smart to do this?  This is how I was bestowed my screen-name--because it worked for me.
>>8
Try this:
Get something to point with.  A pencil works.  Point where you would go, explain why (Two sentences max.)  Never touch the keyboard or mouse yourself.  Motor skills and analytical (sic) skills reside in different parts of the brain and the more the better.  It works.

What does make me think is that in the future might we have less clueless old people of technology?

FIREFOX SUCKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING IT.   :D

>>10
Because all the old people will be dead soon amirite.

>>8
Oh, yes. And most importantly, some of them can't stand scrolling, and start bitching if I just scroll, even with arrows. They just can't track moving things. All they can take is PgUp/Down.

>>10
Well, I'll sure as hell be up to date. Think about when I hit 65 and retire. I'll have all the fucking time in the world to play every possibly holographic VR game, watch every anime, download terabytes of 5 megapixel hentai pics with my 1 Gb/s IPv7 line, and hack around with Perl 11.0 or whatever stuff they use.

most old people dont remember things... my grandma asked me how to turn offf a computer 4 years after having one *sigh*

>>10
Well, Eighty year olds drive don't they?  Not well, but they do drive.  They have no problem getting behind the wheel.  When the geezers become the folks that first grew up with computers, the problem will vanish.

My old man comes complaining to me how I am on the internet for too long. Because he says he is on the net for 2 hours or more and he gets a headache. So his reasoning is that no other human being can be like that. LOL

First thing is that you might be on the net reading for 2 hours but then people on longer than that are like doing other things like chatting, doing work on the comp etc. That sort of concept is so hard for him to see.

>>9
That's a good point, about motivation. I've discovered that older folk, when learning to use computers, tend to learn and recall things better when they actually know why they want to do it. The ones who want to email their son/daughter/brother/sister overseas, or research their family history or whatever, grasp things much faster than people who are just learning because "everyone's using them nowadays" or "my children/grandchildren said I should". The latter don't really know what they want to do with a computer, or why they're even learning in the first place. Learning something because it is a means to an end (even if that end is simply for pleasure or relaxation) is far better than learning something just for the sake of learning it.

>>17
True, they can be so folly if you say "This is how you send an email" they're apathetic and stupid, but if you say "This is how you email your daughter" they'll be all interested. Yet they might ask then, "And how do I email my son?" ...

Learning something because it is a means to an end (even if that end is simply for pleasure or relaxation) is far better than learning something just for the sake of learning it.

Of course, but you can do every fucking computable shit with computers, so learning pretty much anything about them will come in handy. They pleasure and relaxation in an on themselves :) .

What is worse is when old people think they know MORE than you because they read it in the newspaper or something.

Especially when they think your opinion is merely just a "kids" opinion, they would stand their ground.

When I hear talk like that I think of an immature whipersnapper that might know a thing or two about computers, but that's about it. And I'm only twenty-something.

>>19
Now departing: Utopia.

When do viruses and other malacious code factor in?

Learning something because it is a means to an end (even if that end is simply for pleasure or relaxation) is far better than learning something just for the sake of learning it.

Beep, wrong. For intelligent people learning something for learning's sake is an end in itself.

>>22
Right, I'm afraid. Read it again. For intelligent people, learning something is a pleasure. Learning something just because of some vague notion of feeling you have to, as some folk on these Computers for Beginners courses evidently do, is a bad way to go about things.

>>19
>>20
As an old person I'd just like to say THANK YOU!!!  You are both right.  Some people just resent having to learn anything new past a certain point, some will if they see advantage, some people are just fucktards.  Teach these just what they ask for.
>>19
We geezers like things quick and simple cuz we're running out of time.  Even those of us who've done our time on the command line.

>>24
I've never seen a computer that lets you do things quick and simple.

I have to mention, my dad told me that he was 'suffering for a week' because of some winfix spyware pop up window that he got 'tricked' into downloading in IE. 

I told him he should use firefox with adblock but I don't hink he switched.  He actually said that experience made him afraid of trusting anything that wasn't Microsoft.  How stupid is that logic?  Although he also owns a lot of MS stock.

>>24 as an old person, wtf are you doing on an anime board?

>>26
experience made him afraid of trusting anything that wasn't Microsoft
I lol'd
(and I'm a Windows developer)

>>28
DEVELOPERS!

>>27
He's a loliphile.

My father (now 60yo) had ZERO interest in computers until he figured out he could contact his old army buddies on it.  So I built him one, and I installed Win2K on it (fairly sturdy/stable).  It was hell for a while, he actually managed to figure out how to nuke Win2K a few times.  At this point he's moderately proficient.  In fact, he know more about DVD ripping/burning than I do - he's quite the movie pirate, whereas I actually like to own the real thing.  lol.

>>31
Making the MP/-\@ sad is a good thing.

fuck the mpaa