US animation that has FAILED.

This is a list of US animation that attempts to break the barrier of the kid/teen demographic, usually by featuring more sex, violence, or "coolness" in some way. In most cases, these fail to gain any respect, yet at some point someone must have said "this will raise the bar for US animation and usher in a new era of mature, sophisticated animated films and series that can be enjoyed by the masses in an uninhibited form of creative expression that knows no bounds."

-Invasion America, short lived miniseries by Steven Spielberg, used typical WB animation but attempted to be more mature than the average saturday morning cartoon by having a somewhat serious storyline and an occasional risque comment. Nobody cared because it still looked and felt like an average WB cartoon, and wasn't particularly groundbreaking.

-Heavy Metal 2000, attempted to revive the cult hit Heavy Metal while adapting a story from its magazine. Rather than provide unique stories from multiple authors, it became a typical "testosterone-driven female kills and maims in a world full of sex and violence." Little character development or backstory (for example, her tight red outfit and cool sword simply appear with little explanation). Suffers from "trying to be hardcore" syndrome.

-Sin: the movie, based off the game, attempts to deliver an interesting and somewhat epic story in the style of anime. It actually has an interesting feminine character, and at least a little plot. But mostly its an excuse for tons of action scenes, and still suffers from "tries to be hardcore" syndrome. It also has a poor resolution, as the main villainess simply falls off camera, whispering "I'll be back if they ever make a sequel." Another strange note is the subtitles for the Japanese version have completely different dialogue in some places.

-Anastasia: Could have been a serious and dramatic period piece. Actually it was, but it was incredibly superficial and didn't address important historical issues such as death. It tries to be epic, but since it tones down and kiddifies the truth, and ends up being more like a Disney movie than anything else.

-Titan A.E: While not an adult movie, the previews at least implied it could have been en epic, serious sci-fi movie. Instead it turned into a WB style teen movie with limited plot or depth. Typical mindless unsympathetic villains, no real drama or emotion attached to the loss of Earth, and annoying attempts to be hip and cool through the middle. The amount of money spent on this and Anastasia caused the sutdio to go bankrupt.

-Final Fantasy: the Spirits within: Expectations included: Epic sci-fi movie, epic plot in the style of FF games, and a groundbreaking CGI movie that could revolutionize animated movies in the US for an older audience. Instead, it aspired to be a B-grade hollywood movie.

-The Animatrix: Eh. Some parts were cool. Not all of them were that great. Might have carried the "adult animation" genre forward, or widened its audience, but not significantly.

Movies I haven't viewed: Lady Death, Van Hellsing: The London Assignment, and Chronicles of Riddick: Dark Fury.

Conclusion: The animation market wants to expand to an older audience. It tries to breakthrough into the mainstream, in hopes that ones of its features will be immensely popular, create a fanbase, and make lots of money for its producers. But it hasn't, due to the following challenges:

-Hardcoreness. The assumption that "more mature" means more sex and violence, and that a huge teen/adult male audience will flock to it. The faultiness here is that bad action movies already exist. Good ones at least have a plot and likeable characters.

-Broadening genres. Besides action and sci-fi, there isn't much. Perhaps they feel there isn't room to cater to more niche audiences, such as a female oriented drama, comedy, or satire.

-Licensing. Most of these are licensed to tap into some preexisting fanbase. One would assume this means "built in audience," but it also means "limited audience." You're taking "people who like watching X movie" and taking only a small percentage of those who'd watch an animated feature based on it. There are plenty of other sources to tap into, especially comics like in Japan. But hollywood would much rather spend money on a live action adaptation of a comic due to its broader appeal. The challenge is making an animated feature as good or better than a live action equivalent (Batman: Mask of the Phantasm vs Batman & Robin). Also, there are hundreds of independant comics that can be adapted, just look at any comics catalog. But companies are probably too scared to put any "risk" into telling a story with views that don't have mass market appeal.

-Perception of characters. We still use archetypes such as the muscleclad superhero and superheroine. There haven't been too many "normal" characters with interesting backstories, and I think part of this is fear of looking "weak." If you had a truly feminine girl with quirks and shyness, or a timid guy, then you wouldn't have an invincible flawless herop character. I think some people are afraid of showing a character who isn't perfect, or can't defeat the bad guys with one hand. There needs to be flaws and quirks and interesting backstories and personalities and little details, rather than assuming peole will like "generic invincible girl/guy."

-Curves. For some reason, people cannot draw curves. Ever see an ad or artbook that attempts to mimic the "anime" style? There's always something not quite right about it. I believe it has to do with social perception in different cultures, such as "we're tough and unyielding, so we have square jaws" vs "pretty cherry blossoms and kittens = soft pillowy cuddly girls that are excessively cute." Or, they think if females aren't presented as hard and strong, it makes them automatically look weak. But everything needs some amount of femininity to make it more believable. I think this conflict between "should I draw her like a soft harmless animal" or "should she act and talk like a guy" is what subtly seperates curved characters from WB geometric faced characters.

-Lack of funds. If it takes money to make money, how can you work on a more "independant" film if you don't expect it to break through the mass market? You create something cheap, with mass appeal, that has the potential to be wildly popular, so that you can gain capital and hopefully make that more unique, thought provoking epic you dreamed of. But step A never happens. Because the cheap mass market idea os too obivous, too superficial. And if you're going to do that, why make an action movie? Why not make animated porn?

Answer: Because you can only draw chicks that look like guys.

Disclaimer: The above opinion happens to be biased. And an opinion.

home on the range is an insult.

Long live the 1% of all the world's animation that's actually worth watching!

I think western animation needs to find its own identity for serious drama animation rather than aping anime.
When someone makes a show that tries to use anime style it's usually obvious at a glance they don't understand why shortcuts like action line scrolling backgrounds and facefaults(sweatdrops etc) are used, or how to implement them appropriately. I tried watching an episode of Totally Spies once. The way they panned across backgrounds was immediately jarring. It seemed like they had sped it up to the full 30fps of tv. Whatever was done, the image looked like it was shot with a cheap camcorder, leaving the lower framerate character cells feeling detached from the background.
There's already been some progress towards opening animation to an older audience on the comedy side with shows like South Park and the Adult Swim lineup. Unfortunately, none of them raise the bar for art, as most look like they were made with Flash.
Batman:TAS was a big step forward with a unique high-quality look and writing, but was held back by the "cartoons are for kids" perception and all the lesser shows grafted onto the style later on.

Here in Canada there's been a glut of high-school set cartoons aimed at the older child/younger teen market. It would be nice if tried to be something more than a generic episodic series. Heck, even a light hearted romantic comedy would be a nice change.

i think its hilarious that you say American Animation has failed, and you list a project designed, directed, and produced by a japanese man, the only reason you can even call it american is cause they used their hawaii office they used to have

Jacky Chan Adventures
Teen Titans
Totally Spies

ExoSquad was the only American animation that actually pwns most Japanimation in terms of story and characters (animation was dated though). Animaniacs had pretty well written humor as well.

>>10

True. But in Japan, there's not the general perception that animated shows and movies CAN'T be for adults. Or that ONLY children can enjoy them, and adults only watch them because somebody needs to take the kids to the theater. Both of those perceptions are rather common in America.

In addition, Japanese culture allows for things in "kids' shows" that wouldn't be tolerated in American "kids' shows". Hence nearly all anime on US television being censored.

I don't like these new 3D animations that are suposedly for both kids and adults, maybe there is something redeaming in them but I find them damn ugly and unwatchable, and as animation that was for adults and didn't quite succeed you should look into home movies and mission hill, maybe they don't count but they are great in my opinion, I think the key to animation for adults in the US is NOT to make something too serious, to leave a bit of humor and not be like "we are the l33t, we kick japans ass in seriousness, boo yah"

>>48
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-10-11&res=l

Your friend at the end - the Period.
"I go at the end of your sentences - like this!  I let people know when it's okay to breate!"

>>46
Exosquad? You mean the show that blatently and poorly ripped off Macross/Robotech?

Anyone know an animator named Bill Plympton?  His works are unique and pretty good.  Not to mention they're not "kiddie".  Just check them out.  You won't be dissapointed.

And I'd like to add, I can't believe no one mentioned Bill Plymton yet!  Although it's not suprising since myself only found out about him after watching his short animation feature "Face" in Sundance channel, which is not included in a standard cable service.

>39
Truth. There's nothing wrong with "kiddy" animation mor animation designed solely for the purpose of entertainment or amusement. The problem is that most American companies can't concieve of animation being worthwhile for anything _other_ than that. And since a large majority of Americans agree, it's unlikely that Disney would ever risk enough money on changing their mind. Pixar is downright incredible when it comes to 3D, but they don't really push the borders very far; it's basically all kids' stuff as well.

I don't think that even a single big-name animation could alter the American views towards animation enough; Akira, Ghost in the Shell and the Princess Mononoke were all relatively successful and non-kiddy but failed to make much of a dent in the general attitudes, for varying reasons. The only path I can see really working is a studio that managed to grind out a number of successive films/series that made it abundantly clear that adult-oriented (not porn) animation can work. I don't expect this to happen, however, and I'm not going to mourn the possibility; mainstream America just doesn't have the right combination of circumstances to make an industry out of a media we happen to enjoy. As CG technology increases, however, it may reach the point where most or all filmmaking is done via animation, at which point it will be interesting to see how the media end up intersecting.

I know the American cartoon industry isn’t as impressive as Japans is, but who gives shit?  Americas film power isn’t in animation, it’s in live action everybody should know this by now.  

>>34
I don't think you understand at all.

All the animes you mentioned weren't made for adults and kids.  They weren't made "for" anyone.  The original artists used their comics as a form of personal self-expression.  That's what being an artist is.

The problem with American cartooning isn't just that we see the genre as kid-oriented, it's that there's no room for creativity.  Animated movies aren't made by artists, they're created by corporate scumbags in committee, arguing about the best way to make an easy buck by copying some other piece of America trash.  They talk to focus groups and look at demographics and try to engineer mindless drivel for the largest group of people.  That's not what an artist does.

There's a difference between taking creative criticism and being a corporate whore.

I liked Titan AE and Teen Titans are great

>>56
If Teen Titans were not blatantly trying to have an "Anime look" so damn hard from a standard comic book american style I could stand it.
But every 5 fucking seconds there is a sweatdrop, stress cross, giant yelling head, chibi form, non-pupil, cliche anime expression.
With exactly the same setups for these occurances to happen, over and over.
As if to say, "HEY LOOK AT ME! IM ANIME! HEY HEY! IM ANIME NOW! CHECK IT OUT. IM SOOOOOO ANIME!" I hate that show very much and it's extremly hard to watch.

>>57
The anime look is the only reason to watch that crappy show.

For the record, the animation director is Chinese.  It's not Wapanese.

otaku creating anime is awesome. AKA Megus XLR which parodies/pays tribute to the great/horrible young adult series. it wins hardcore.

There's a perception problem--in the US, animation is considered a genre, in Japan, it's considered a medium.

>>43
Totally Spies is French.

I'd like to mention Roughnecks: The Starship Troopers Chronicles. It was brilliant. Great writing (one of the lead story editors was Greg Weisman, of Gargoyles fame), veteran voices, beautiful animation. SO MANY things went wrong for it though - money issues, screwed up production schedule, no set airing schedule. I'm still angry about the red-headed stepchild treatment it got from Sony. It's been, what? Damn near six years now...?

>>61
"A France-Canada Coproduction" to be precise. And I don't see how France fails to qualify as western.

>>21


Geez, is everyone in the entertainment industry and asshole. I used to go to a lot of game show message boards, but they started getting overrun by snotty pricks with broadcasting degrees and no talent  who bully and harass everyone isn't a part of their clique.

>>60
Truth.

It's gotten better though.  "Animation" used to mean hitting cartoon animals over the head with anvils.

>>62

It's pretty traditional to consider the East to be Asia and the West to be Europe and the Americas(damned if I know where everything else is supposed to be). So yes, that means it is Western.

Well, at least South Park was a sucess.
Much of the credit can go to how it makes fun of how fucked up America is, and be funny at the same time. Remember that episode about Protest and support of the Iraq war? That totally rocked. How about the time Rob Reiner went on an anti-smoking crusade in South Park? How about making fun of the shitty way the handicaped were treated in Timmayy and The Lords of The Underworld?

I think there's a definite perception issue here on what makes a work "mature". Sex and violence is one way, but it won't necessarily create a product that's actually interesting.

Instead, there needs to be more American animation with sophisticated themes, above the level of a child. I was lucky enough to see Spawn II with a friend, which achieves this quite well, even though I had known nothing about the series beforehand. The story has angst and tragedy. It shows homeless people trapped between gang wars and drug dealers expanding their territory, and how it affects those living on the streets. A murdered man returned as a hell-spawn fights his natural inclination for evil and attempts to walk on the edge of the fence between killing for the sake of those who cannot defend themselves and killing for the sake of killing itself. He has to decide whether his best friend in life has betrayed him by dating his former fiancee, or if he is trying to make sure no harm befalls the loved one of the departed. There's violence and cursing, but it isn't smeared over the entire film but used where appropriate. There's no music, no action-packed fight scenes, and the movie is better for it as a whole, having a downright haunting effect on the viewer.

Admittedly I'm not too familiar with the genre of American comics, but they're likely the best bet in bringing U.S. animation to more sophisticated levels. Comic books frequently deal with mature themes that a child wouldn't be able to begin understanding until much later in life. Themes of racial discrimination and genocide can be found clearly in X-Men, where both the humans that hate them and Magneto's group of mutants out to destroy humanity can cause moral conflicts for Xavier's students. Even the Hulk, typically seen as the story of an angry green guy smashing stuff, goes deeper when it's actually read: Bruce Banner is a MPD patient, and the grey Hulk, green Hulk, the Professor, guilt Hulk and other archtypes are all manifestions of different parts of his personality. This fact leads to a number of conflicts and quite a bit of therapy probing the inner workings of his mind.

Thanks to the success of Spiderman, superhero movies are on the rise. So why not create an animated film for older audiences, based off a comic book? Seeing as the comics were illustrated to begin with, it wouldn't be much different than creating an anime or OAV from a popular manga. It seems unlikely that any such movie will ever see a mainstream audience, but for the time being it's America's best shot.

With that said, pick up your AK47s and demand something that does not milk cash. If you really want something, take action. Support some poor artist trying to make a totally different and original feature. Shoot some damn CEO. Blow up Disneyland. I don't care what you do, if you want change, it's gonna be a violent and bloody battle. Or alternatively, move to Japan.

Sure.  Contact info?

I can't believe nobody has mentioned The Iron Giant.

That would be because the Iron Giant rocked.

I haven't seen Iron Giant.  Does it rock in a good way, or does it rock back and forth in the corner like an autistic child?

I think the problem with US is that we haven't found a middle ground for animation. It's either immature racy porn cartoons or childish mindless fun. We need mature as in deep and thought provoking.. not just profanity, sex, and violence. Maybe then the mothers of America will start thinking animation as more of a genre.

>>72
The Iron Giant is AWESOME...

>>74
I've heard the same from friends I trust, I guess I'll have to watch it one day.

>>50
Actually, it had more in common with FASA's Battletech I thought. Even design wise, see; Elementals.

>>51
>>52
I haven't seen this Face before. I'm familiar with the commercials he did (it seems the only truly creative outlet in the US now is advertising/marketing. Fun little irony there.) and that wacky movie of his that played on IFC a lot back in the day called So I Married A Strange Person. I love the part when the war-mongering general forgets about his new "powers" and blows himself up while taking a whiz.

Actually there was a LOONG LONG lawsuit between Battletech and Exosquad. Battletech was using designs from a Macross artist. Exosquad had a crossover with Robotech. FASA sued since Exosquad already had such a similar plotline anyway, FASA lost, and lost the countersue, also losing the right to use the designs. Exosquad then had a crossover with Robotech. I have a Exosquad-Robotech mech in my hand right now.

Back on the subject on failed animation (and not why the industry sucks), I believe Megas XLR has joined the ranks of the good, the dead, and the American\Non-Japanese. Megas had soooo much potential to be the anti-Gundam giant robot anime-ish show, with a greater ratio of metal on metal ass-kicking to angst\love stories than the average Japanese GRA (Giant Robo Anime). Unfortunatly, they wasted their opportunity with iffy action sequences, cliched writing and bad editing. And now it's dead.
Not coincidentally, Cartoon Network started airing Krypto the Superdog about the same time that Megas hit the floor. CN is heading the way of Nick and MTV, and theres nothing to stop it's fall. How sad.

Actually Krypto's not that bad as long as Dini is writing. However the SECOND that Dini steps out to grab some lunch this other writer runs in, shits on a piece of paper, and sends it off to the animation studio.

Another reason why US animations has failed is because they treat their audiences as mindless zombies. Mind you most Japanese Animation does that do but the ones that actually take their audience seriously can produces marvels liek Cowboy Bebop and FLCL.

The US Animation Industry just cares about looks primarily. Story and acting is secondary to them because their primary market are kids. If the industry doesn't start changing the way they see their audience it is never going to move up.