| Mamoru Oshii : "No one really cares how much we sell. As long as we create things we want, that's what we care about" unfortunately, not everyone thinks like that in the industry.....
He is for sure a god for us!
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Anonymous2013-01-22 13:08
Bahi is superior to Oshii and miyazaki
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Anonymous2013-01-22 14:09
It's this mentality that has made me enjoy OVAs more than TV anime over the years, I get the impression that OVAs are made with much more artistic freedom, and they can be great even on next to zero budget.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 14:33
OVA, artistic freedom
what?
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Anonymous2013-01-22 15:18
Well think of it this way Mr. >>4, compared to OVAs TV anime has a lot more boxes to check before it's green-lit for TV.
Each episode will have to run for approximately 20-30 minutes. Meaning the show will have to work within that time period whether that's too much time (Resulting in unnecessary padding) or not enough time (Resulting in having to be split into episodes). This can ruin the flow of the original work or storyboard.
It will also have to span over a set number of cours. Meaning the number of episodes (Which in reality is how much airtime can be bought) will once again have to either be crammed or stretched to fit this limitation.
As covered, the fee to get a slot on TV will somehow have to be paid for too. Originally, this was not such a problem as late-night TV slots were relatively cheap (Hence why most anime aired late at night), however now that the market is saturated, this is now a problem. The TV channel will have to be convinced that this show is going to get ratings and that the advertisers will be happy with that. Once again this comes down to money; how can you prove to this TV channel that your amazing original series that is both fresh yet enjoyable will be a hit and get them the ratings they need? There's another cute girl/childrens/light novel adaption who can fill that gap, and there is more proof they will sell no matter how good you might think yours is.
It's business sense that they will choose the familiar show, it's their money. They don't really care about anime or the artistic merits of the medium; they just need to make their moneys.
With OVAs, there are none of these concerns - the creators don't have to meet anyone's standards or approval. There are no production companies breathing down the necks of the artists looking for a character they can pitch to the character-goods companies to cover costs. OVAs can be as long or as short as necessary for the story to be told, with any variation of duration.
>>5
Most OVA episodes also run for about 20-30 or in some cases 40-60 minutes. There usually isn't much variation in episode length in an OVA series.
Also, just like TV anime, OVAs are supposed to make profit. There are a lot of unfinished OVAs that failed to do that.
Making anime isn't cheap and those costs need to be covered somehow.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 17:15
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Nice quote.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 17:33
I think he is cherry-picking.
If you look at the OVAs of the 80s or 90s then you would see that 95% was the same shit without story and often not even good animated.
Not necessarily, look at Kowarekake no Orgel - it was made on 0 budget yet still managed to be great, it even looks better than a lot of anime out today. It was only sold at Comiket too, it wasn't made with the intention of making money.
Most of the OVAs from the 80s or 90s have been classics. LotGH is an OVA series if you're one of those people who likes that. Gunbuster, Bubblegum Crisis, Dirty Pair, The Samurai, Area 88, Urusei Yatsura were all good. And then you look at the 90s and you have the NukuNuku OVA in 1992 which was awesome, Otaku no Video, Tenchi Muyo which is a classic. Gatchaman and Giant Robo, Mezzo Forte in the late 90s, Ranma 1/2 too being a classic.
What were you saying again? If anything OVAs have been 90% great. Most of the classics people refer to are actually OVAs instead of TV anime series.
Oh I see...So in other words you haven't actually watched them, have you? You're just going by the generalization that "There must be some bad ones in this big list, so I'll just use it to throw the ball back in their court so I don't have to prove anything".
Unfortunately, that's not how it works either.
You see, the original point didn't have anything to do with all OVAs being untouchable, in fact - it didn't have anything to do with the signal to noise ratio of good OVAs to bad OVAs. And if we want to go even further - the original point didn't even have anything to do with the 80s or 90s...in fact I'm not entirely sure why that person mentioned the 80s or 90s to begin with.
The original point was that OVAs today have more artistic freedom than TV anime does, for reasons already listed. Whether of course they choose to act on that is another matter, and this will be the same in any era from the past to the present and into the future. However, from what I've seen so far is that OVAs do indeed seem to be kicking the proverbial behind of TV anime and the only TV anime series that manage to really stand on their own two feet against this are actually anime original works which is definitely a point scored for creativity and artistic freedom in my humble opinion.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 20:12
Just in the last couple of weeks I've watched these OVAs from the 80s and 90s:
Mujigen Hunter Fandora
Dai Majuu Gekitou: Hagane no Oni
Makyou Gaiden Le Deus
Dream Hunter Rem
Battle Arena Toushinden
Gakuen Tokusou Hikaruon
I can assure you that none of these are really worth watching for any other reason than seeing certain animators' work.
Next in my backlog is D-1 Devastator and Moldiver. I don't have high expectations for either of them.
There were a lot of mediocre and bad OVAs made back then and most of those have been forgotten. Many of them still haven't been subbed.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 20:15
What about short films that don't fall into the same category as OVA. La maison en le petits cubes for example, isn't an OVA or ONA or whatever. They're usually made for promoting culture and status, rather than hauling in the big bucks. Isn't there that government sponsored things with young animators coming up? I don't think that's to haul in the big bucks either, but there is some sort of gain for the government by doing it.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 20:36
>>20 Isn't there that government sponsored things with young animators coming up?
The purpose of that is to help the anime industry by training young animators. In the long run it may "haul in the big bucks".
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Anonymous2013-01-22 21:41
I think the idea some people in this thread are trying to get across is that anime is not quite the capitalist venture some of the young fans think it is (I'm not trying to make this a Young/Old divide, but it's just fact that the younger fans are born into a different idea of how they think the anime industry works)
Yes there has always been a moneymaking element in certain areas of anime (Gundam, Kids shows etc.) and nowadays money seems to come before everything else, but there was a time when none of that mattered. There was a time when "SALES" were just a means of measuring how popular a series might be.
It's not like a table of businessmen one day thought up the idea of 'anime' and suddenly it was created and everything was about LD/VHS/DVD/BD sales and marketable characters and concepts and how much they could earn from character goods. If anything, that's a very recent development as far as late night anime goes.
Many studios were started out of bedrooms with the 'employees' (What was realistically just Japanese kids with an interest in animation) not earning a salary and trying to juggle school/work around their hobby.
Even the biggest record labels today were bedroom operations - and this was before the days of the internet. The same applies to videogames too.
There might be lots of money and business interest in late night anime now, but this isn't how it always was and when the interest inevitably runs out (which it will) and companies like Sony realize there's no worthwhile money to be made (which there won't be), they will drop out and many of these studios will go back essentially to being much smaller.
Well, you also have studios that were started by people who split off from large studios like Sunrise and MushiPro.
Some people like Ikuhara and Hosoda probably left Toei because they were not allowed to work on anything else other than the brands that Yamakan mentioned like Sailor Moon or Digimon and One Piece.
How did the production committee start anyway? Most fans have that misconception that studios fund and benefit the most from their works when that isn't usually the case. I mean even looking at Kyoani's commercials, it's clear these guys want to do something different but they're still hampered by what I can only guess as a lack funding on their side so they have to meet the investors and producers demands.
Makes you wonder how Yuasa gets all of his stuff green-lighted though.
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Anonymous2013-01-22 22:16
>>23
Yuasa and Bill Plympton rarely make profits. Plympton likes Yuasa's work. Coincidence? I think not.
Well even subsidiary companies have to stem from somewhere. The fact is that when you return to the source, it's always been a home made thing.
The production committee started in the 90s as basically a money pool of sorts to help ensure the the relevant parties which were beginning to get off the ground with their own studios etc. had money to fall back on in the event of disaster.
But as anime got popular in the 2000s the investors swiftly joined and took over as they saw the potential for money to be made.
The story isn't too dissimilar to what we see in the news every day, small companies perish and big companies buy them out eventually resulting in a monopoly which is never good news for a creative medium. It rarely works with retail outlets.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 2:40
Sup Bahi
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Anonymous2013-01-23 3:53
I see only claims that the 80s and 90s were more "arty" and no evidence.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 4:41
Is this sakuga thread part 11?
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Anonymous2013-01-23 5:10
I don't think so, and I'm not sure if it's wise to start one now. There seems to be something spamming threads one by one here.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 6:52
>>23
It was always a bit like that. Mushi Pro was an outlet for Tezuka adaptations, A-Pro was the same with Fujio adaptations, a lot of the times the producers (which are the actual clients) had demands about how this or that should be in the show in order to garner ratings. Unpopular shows were canceled early too.
Since the mid-60s, anime has been a commercial enterprise mostly. This doesn't mean there is no art and love, every form of entertainment and expression gets gems made by people who didn't care about sales. But the bulk of it has always been commercial products, and even the most respected animators and directors worked on these only being able to paint them with their style and elevate them as much as they could.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 7:01
well, there are many interviews with Miyazaki from the 80s where he said that he hates the anime industry (of the 80s) because it's all about business.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 8:29
how an industry is supposed to survive without profits ?
How a child can survive without eating ?
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Anonymous2013-01-23 8:34
That's the problem for white-collar workers not for artists like Bahi!
Well, until you hear some animators cry that they don't earn enough.
And if you honestly want to discuss the "state" of the anime industry, create a new thread called "Anime Industry Discussion Thread #1" and start properly from there instead up dragging Bahi's name down into the mud.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 8:39
how is that trolling/bashing/whatever if that is just a quote of his twitter account?
>>36
Because look at the thread title, if you can't honestly see OP was fishing for responses, trying to provoke people into responding then you are blind. Plus the title has nothing to do with what's being discussed, if you want talk about bahi in this thread, then by all means, but if you just want argue pointless semantics of what you believe the anime industry is like then use the other thread.
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Anonymous2013-01-23 8:56
>>37
The whole point of a discussion board is to discuss things. Are you suggesting we should only post things people won't be interested in responding to?
>>38
Ugh, I'm saying the opposite. This thread was started off a troll post (2 or 3 actually since he same fagged the first few) and now everyone has been brought into this stupid charade about what they know best about anime is the right thing. Unless you are the OP, then well fucking done.