American anime industry

The chair of AX says the attendees of Anime Expo is averaging about 20 percent annual growth,
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2005/07/07/apop.DTL

but Ask John mentioned "The contemporary American anime industry is in dire straights. Evidence suggests that many of America's anime distributors are struggling financially."
http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1123

What's this all about?

Anime and manga have gotten as much shelf space at the video stores and the bookstores as they're going to get (which is a lot); there's simply more product in the market than the market's going to support, and the US licensors have to slow it down.

More people watching anime (as possibly evidenced by the increasing attendance of anime cons) doesn't mean more people are buying anime. Ever hear of a little thing called Bittorrent? The fansubbers' code of practice, that of "destroy all copies and cease distribution when licensed", has long fallen by the wayside.

True, the fansub scene (by interest, not by output) is 80% bootlegging licensed shit, and 20% everything else. As soon as it hit the internet, the community got into one-day warez mentality.

These days American distributors are putting out just about everything that comes out in Japan. There are plenty of series where you really have to wonder why someone thought it was a good idea to bring them to the U.S. market. ADV in particular makes me wonder what the hell they're thinking.

>>5

"If I get as much shit out there as I can, the better the odds are that something will hit it big. If something hits it big, it'll make way, way more money than it cost me to license all this shit put together. Furthermore, my main focus will be things with guns and tits."

ADV And the like need to either 1) Open up a broadcasting channel dedicated to 24/7 anime distribution or 2)Just work on dubbing there shows and releasing them on other broadcast channels.

Anime is just too expensive to buy when you can get it for free on the internet. I mean cmon, who would pay 10-25 dollars for 4 episodes per dvd? thats CRAZY. Fansubbing was around way before ADV and the rest of mass-market dubbers, you just cant compete.

Because anime fans are not businessmen.

No, really, thats what it is. They run the business based on their fandom. They want to push out the shows THEY PERSONALLY like, profit be damned. Its no way to run a company.

>>7

Who'd pay $10-$25 for 4 episodes per dvd?

I would, actually.  I use the fansubs as a sort of try-before-buy thing.  Anime that I like, I save the cash for and buy so as to encourage more anime like it.  Call me an idealist, but I like to think that a lot of people approach it the same way. 

I DL GitS:SAC from the web.  I like it.  I wait for the DVDs to be published and then buy them.  I want more shows like GitS:SAC.

I DL Chobits from the web.  I don't like it.  I don't buy the DVDs when they come out.  I want fewer shows like Chobits.

>>9 returns to happy land

>>9
You sir are either very rich, to be able to buy 10-20 dvd's of a series. OR you have parents who buy you whatever you want. Whichever it is, i hate you, and you shouldnt support the american anime industry.

Lets face it. Japanese anime fans are more willing to spend more on their anime compared to the US fans. I mean they are willing to tolerate like US$50 for a 2 episode DVD (i think that was the price). In US, people will be screaming about it.

Yes the american anime industry is trying to bring that in the US market at those sort of price. Well not that high but still high for its target market. Thats why the only way anime will ever make money in the US is if it hits the TVs. They cant make big money out of DVD sales alone.

And the Japanese anime industry listens to its fans, because they shell out.

The US anime industry, on the other hand, does not, because most of them don't pay for shit.

>The contemporary American anime industry is in dire straights.
I think he meant "dire straits"

>>10
You sir need to get a job.

>>14
Yea i do, but i still wouldnt pay 20 bucks for a 4 episode dvd of anime unless it included alot of extra's (Which they dont). I'de rather just get it FREE, before it comes to the united stated, fansubbed (a better translation). The American Anime Industry is going to fail, its like nintendo, its just a matter of time. :D

>>3
>>4

unless everything has changed in the last month, the last time I looked up fansub stuff was last month, this is completly untrue, fan sub groups still for the most part stop distribution when licensed, in my experience it is the other way around, they have STARTED doing that where they used to only say they would

>>12


U.S. industry doesn't care about it's fans in any market, all they care about is the all might dollar, so don't blame it on the "if the fans bought it then they would pay atention to us" idea, that doesn't work, that never worked, this is america where the mentality of most businesses is "give us your money then go away"

>>17

you say this like the japanese anime companies are some kind of supernatural, cashless, benevolent force that just hands out anime to anybody who passes by out of the goodness of their hearts

it's because of the otaku paying up in japan that you can interweb all your shit and then make up elaborate justifications for it. if it's so fucking different in japan, then either go buy r2s or just admit you're pirating like the rest of us do.

>>17
I think its more like the US Anime Industry rather listen to themselves because they apparently "know" the market better. And do stupid things like "americanize" an anime series.

>>18
Its rather the Japanese companies already made their money from their initial TV broadcast. DVD sales are only secondary to them after mechandising.

Thats why for anime to make any money in the US its got to make it from broadcast rights and not DVD sales.

>>16
That is true. All of the major/big fansubbing groups stop when the lisence announcement is given. But there are always the minoriy rougue groups that just want to sub it just for the heck of it. And because more anime series are being lisenced even before its being broadcasted, the major fansub groups are seen less and less.

>>21

yeah this is true, I wanted to see bo bo bo before it was hacked to death but it has already been pulled, CN/funimation buying the licences to these anime and in some cases never even airing is killing the legit fansubers

>>22
bobobo wasn't getting subbed very quickly anyway, but yeah, the dialogue being a bunch of puns, i'm not entirely confident that it works well in English (dub or sub, nevermind edits) in the first place.

>>19
>And do stupid things like "americanize" an anime series.

how often does this shit even happen anymore? once a year?

Every anime that comes here with the plan to broadcast is ALWAYS gonna get americanized. Naruto for example, 4Kids has already commented that they are gonna do changes to suit the US market. Initial D they totally changed names and accent because Funimation thought they could put it on TV.

Mind the anime series that are for Adult Swim don't get this treatment though.

Every anime that comes here with the plan to broadcast is ALWAYS gonna get americanized. Naruto for example, 4Kids has already commented that they are gonna do changes to suit the US market. Initial D they totally changed names and accent because Funimation thought they could put it on TV.

Mind the anime series that are for Adult Swim don't get this treatment though.

>>25
wut, I thought Tokyopoop changed the Intial D dub to appeal to The Fast and The Furious crowd.

>>27

Yeah, it was Tokyopop. They were shopping it to networks for years. Nobody wanted it. The Tokyopop version of ID doesn't so much appeal to The Fast And The Furious crowd so much as the changes are all just irredeemable shit.

It still doesnt somehow sound right that if you want to follow through with an anime series, you have to wait like a couple months for the next batch of 3-4 episodes on DVDs.

Initial D wasn't that good anyhow

So according to this thread, the american anime industry is putting out too much crap, and needs to focus on higher quality titles. It's getting into a dead end with DVDs and needs to get more anime on broadcast TV to make real money. But getting it on a non late-night slot like adult swim where they can get a wider audience and bigger ad bucks means editing to appease the censor happy political climate or a retarded executive's vision of youth culture, reducing the appeal for a show's core fanbase. Never mind that licensing costs are ballooning as anime producers realize the potential of the export market. And if a popular show gets licensed in the middle of its run, it can be months or years before they catch up to where the fansubs left off, giving buzz over it plenty of time to cool off.(assuming the subbers stop on announcement of a license)

So it sounds like they're in a bit of a pickle.

>>31
Well ADV had announced that Evangelion is gonna be broadcasted on Cartoon Network. I DOUBT it will be censored because the amount to be censored.

And it is still true that the only way to make realy big buck is to put on TV. Thats why you have ADV pushing more anime on TV and even the setup of that 24/7 Anime channel. But it is true as well that an anime series to get accepted in normal everyday TV is:
1. The self-censorship that occurs. I find funny how where there is no govermental censorship on TV yet executives do self-censorship to avoid the complaints from stupid parents
2. Appease to the US mainstream culture
Those two problems are essential a cultural problem that is the US and western world in general. Because anime is Asia and other parts of the world have been received quite well for YEARS now with no problems. Yes some have been censored to a degree but the ones that don't still retain everything.

I would rather have TV stations show an anime episode that had a Japanese summer festival going on and then a mini-explanation after to explain it in more detail to the western audiences. NOT have them change the notion of a Japanese summer festival is New Years Party.

>>1
Somehow that does make sense.

The is a rise in the popularity in anime and everything relating to it.

But these fans are not the hardcore cash-spending fans that anime companies are use to.

>>1

from ADVS point of view its all about shelf space, whenever or not shops actually want to stock the product and if the product will sell after its been authored and released

>NOT have them change the notion of a Japanese summer festival is New Years Party.
What show did THAT happen in?

Ayeka:  Don't drink that tea!  That tea is bad for you!

$10-$25 is lucky.

The Japanese generally play $40-$50 for a 4 episode DVD.

Geh.  PAY.

>>37
The cost of everything in Japan is higher as well.

I wonder how they can pay such inflated prices and still have enough demand. They rarely have entire boxset collections, everything is in several volumes, even crappy US TV series with 2 episodes each until the end of the series.